I guess I’d say that it counts if you’re willing to treat Unitarian Universalism as an actual religious denomination. Whether it counts or not would probably depend on how you identify such things, since it’s missing qualities which one might consider important, such as formal doctrines.
In my experience Unitarian Universalism, at least in its modern form, is mainly a conglomeration of liberal progressive ideals used as an umbrella to unite people with religious beliefs ranging from moralistic therapeutic deism to outright atheism.
All of the Unitarian Universalists I’ve known well enough to ask have also identified themselves as secular humanists, so I certainly wouldn’t regard it as an alternative to secular humanism which carries that value.
Whether it counts or not would probably depend on how you identify such things, since it’s missing qualities which one might consider important, such as formal doctrines.
Atheists tend to identify religions as creeds: your religion is about what you believe. By this way of thinking, a Catholic is any person who believes thus-and-so; a Buddhist is any person who believes this-and-that; a Muslim is any person who believes the-other-thing; and so on. Having correct belief (orthodoxy) is indeed significant to many religious people, but that’s not the same as it being what religion is about.
Protestant Christianity asserts sola fide, the principle that believers are justified (their sins removed) by dint of their faith in Jesus Christ. The first pillar of Islam is the shahadah, a declaration of belief. One of the first questions people ask about any new-to-them religion is, “What do you believe in?”, and discussions of religions often involve clarifying points of belief, such as “Buddhists don’t believe the Buddha is a god.” Examples such as these may lead many atheists to think that religion is about belief.
Another way of looking at religion, though, is that religion is about practice: what you do when you think you’re doing religion. The significant thing that makes your religion is not your religious beliefs, but your religious habits or practices. You can assert the Catechism all day long … but if you don’t go to Mass, pray, take communion, and confess your sins to a priest, you’re not a central example of a Catholic. And the other four pillars of Islam aren’t about belief, but about practice.
And something else to consider is that religion is also about who you do it with — a community. Religion is usually done with some reference to a local community (a church, coven, what-have-you) and a larger community that includes other local groups as well as teachers, leaders, recognized figures. It is this community that teaches and propagates the beliefs. People are considered to be members of the religion by dint of their membership in this community (possibly formally recognized, as by baptism) even if they do not yet know the beliefs they are “supposed to” have. Most Christians have never read the whole Bible, after all.
UU is one group I happen to know well enough to expect that its members do in fact advocate good works on the basis of good works being a good thing, so if it’s a counterexample, that’s easy. But if it isn’t because it isn’t actually a religion, OK.
I think something similar is true of Congregationalists, from my limited experience of them… but then, all the Congregationalists I’ve known well enough to ask have identified themselves as agnostics and atheists, so perhaps they don’t count either.
But I have a clearer notion of what your category is now; thank you for the clarification.
Does it seem to you that you and Ritalin (in the comment I replied to) mean the same thing by “religion”?
I guess I’d say that it counts if you’re willing to treat Unitarian Universalism as an actual religious denomination. Whether it counts or not would probably depend on how you identify such things, since it’s missing qualities which one might consider important, such as formal doctrines.
In my experience Unitarian Universalism, at least in its modern form, is mainly a conglomeration of liberal progressive ideals used as an umbrella to unite people with religious beliefs ranging from moralistic therapeutic deism to outright atheism.
All of the Unitarian Universalists I’ve known well enough to ask have also identified themselves as secular humanists, so I certainly wouldn’t regard it as an alternative to secular humanism which carries that value.
Atheists tend to identify religions as creeds: your religion is about what you believe. By this way of thinking, a Catholic is any person who believes thus-and-so; a Buddhist is any person who believes this-and-that; a Muslim is any person who believes the-other-thing; and so on. Having correct belief (orthodoxy) is indeed significant to many religious people, but that’s not the same as it being what religion is about.
Protestant Christianity asserts sola fide, the principle that believers are justified (their sins removed) by dint of their faith in Jesus Christ. The first pillar of Islam is the shahadah, a declaration of belief. One of the first questions people ask about any new-to-them religion is, “What do you believe in?”, and discussions of religions often involve clarifying points of belief, such as “Buddhists don’t believe the Buddha is a god.” Examples such as these may lead many atheists to think that religion is about belief.
Another way of looking at religion, though, is that religion is about practice: what you do when you think you’re doing religion. The significant thing that makes your religion is not your religious beliefs, but your religious habits or practices. You can assert the Catechism all day long … but if you don’t go to Mass, pray, take communion, and confess your sins to a priest, you’re not a central example of a Catholic. And the other four pillars of Islam aren’t about belief, but about practice.
And something else to consider is that religion is also about who you do it with — a community. Religion is usually done with some reference to a local community (a church, coven, what-have-you) and a larger community that includes other local groups as well as teachers, leaders, recognized figures. It is this community that teaches and propagates the beliefs. People are considered to be members of the religion by dint of their membership in this community (possibly formally recognized, as by baptism) even if they do not yet know the beliefs they are “supposed to” have. Most Christians have never read the whole Bible, after all.
Well, that’s why I’m asking the question.
UU is one group I happen to know well enough to expect that its members do in fact advocate good works on the basis of good works being a good thing, so if it’s a counterexample, that’s easy. But if it isn’t because it isn’t actually a religion, OK.
I think something similar is true of Congregationalists, from my limited experience of them… but then, all the Congregationalists I’ve known well enough to ask have identified themselves as agnostics and atheists, so perhaps they don’t count either.
But I have a clearer notion of what your category is now; thank you for the clarification.
Does it seem to you that you and Ritalin (in the comment I replied to) mean the same thing by “religion”?
I can’t speak for Ritalin, but I’d speculate that we’d both identify it as requiring certain patterns of belief as well as affiliation.