Mala: But isn’t blatant lying still especially bad because it makes people think lies are okay, while subtle lying might not discourage honest truth-tellers as much? At least the clueless ones.
Noa: There’s not actually a norm against lying. There’s a norm against allowing people to notice that someone is lying. Depending on the power dynamics of the situation, the blame can fall on the liar, or on the person calling them out.
Honest truth-telling is being protected in the short run by this kind of behavior—but only by exploiting honest truth-tellers for the benefit of people at higher simulacrum levels. It’s a conspiracy of silence. Hypocrisy may, as La Rochefoucauld said, be the tribute vice pays to virtue, but it’s paid in a currency that’s only valuable to vice—lip service and empty statements of affiliation.
We all agree that it’s upsetting when it seems as though someone’s lying, but sometimes for exactly opposite reasons. Some people object to the lie, but others are participating inblame games. Simulacrum level 3 players are unhappy that their fantasy that we’re cooperating is being disrupted. Simulacrum level 4 players are just piling on the current target of the mob, in order not to stick out—or directing the mob at one of their enemies.
I think the last two paragraphs here were the ones I had the hardest time parsing (including the prior two paragraphs to keep it easier to orient around their context)
What is “this kind of behavior?” Blatant lying? Disproportionate punishing of blatant lying over subtle lying?
“this kind of behavior” = the blame machinery that gets activated when lying is mentioned, i.e. “Depending on the power dynamics of the situation, the blame can fall on the liar, or on the person calling them out.”
I think the last two paragraphs here were the ones I had the hardest time parsing (including the prior two paragraphs to keep it easier to orient around their context)
What is “this kind of behavior?” Blatant lying? Disproportionate punishing of blatant lying over subtle lying?
“this kind of behavior” = the blame machinery that gets activated when lying is mentioned, i.e. “Depending on the power dynamics of the situation, the blame can fall on the liar, or on the person calling them out.”