Hey, I appreciate your reply, but I think you should give me more credit. You claim a few times that there is some difference between what I said and what Deluks said. There is a whole space of beliefs that might be pointed at by what I said, why not pick the beliefs that don’t have trivial objections?
When someone goes to Arlington and cries, it is expected to be because they are sad people died, not out of blind grief and rage against the Military Industrial Complex. If someone came back from Memorial Day service outraged about the service, and brought out a pledge detailing the fact that they would refuse to take place in any militarily-influenced acts and try to convince others to do the same, this would not be typical.
Whether or not I think it is “morally permitted to act disruptively in my cryonics scenario”, I think introducing morality is a pretty easy way to fuzz up a conversation. As Scott Alexander points out in “In Favor of Niceness, Community, and Civilization”,
Suppose I am a radical Catholic who believes all Protestants deserve to die, and therefore go around killing Protestants. So far, so good.
Unfortunately, there might be some radical Protestants around who believe all Catholics deserve to die. If there weren’t before, there probably are now. So they go around killing Catholics, we’re both unhappy and/or dead, our economy tanks, hundreds of innocent people end up as collateral damage, and our country goes down the toilet.
So we make an agreement: I won’t kill any more Catholics, you don’t kill any more Protestants. The specific Irish example was called the Good Friday Agreement and the general case is called “civilization”.
it’s not always a good idea to fight for your idea at 100%, because there are lots of ideas. You are attempting to get me to agree, similarly, that all religious folks with hell-type places are best served by constantly attempting to convert you. Would you convert in this case? I wouldn’t! It would be incredibly irritating, and hey, in real life, we do a pretty good job of ignoring anyone who goes around trying to sell us things, from door-to-door salesmen to Jehovah’s Witnesses.
This is a component of the argument: intentionally radicalizing yourself is hurtful because it doesn’t get you more options, just less restraint. I believe Deluks themself previously has endorsed the strategy of leaving options open to your future self after regretting a large charitable donation that they later thought was unwise. I believe this is part of the reason they are avoiding taking a pledge over an issue they care about.
Hey, I appreciate your reply, but I think you should give me more credit. You claim a few times that there is some difference between what I said and what Deluks said. There is a whole space of beliefs that might be pointed at by what I said, why not pick the beliefs that don’t have trivial objections?
To get all of this explicitly represented, I’ll add a few more sentences below. I’ll also consider more heavily how much shared background I’m imagining.
When someone goes to Arlington and cries, it is expected to be because they are sad people died, not out of blind grief and rage against the Military Industrial Complex. If someone came back from Memorial Day service outraged about the service, and brought out a pledge detailing the fact that they would refuse to take place in any militarily-influenced acts and try to convince others to do the same, this would not be typical.
Whether or not I think it is “morally permitted to act disruptively in my cryonics scenario”, I think introducing morality is a pretty easy way to fuzz up a conversation. As Scott Alexander points out in “In Favor of Niceness, Community, and Civilization”,
it’s not always a good idea to fight for your idea at 100%, because there are lots of ideas. You are attempting to get me to agree, similarly, that all religious folks with hell-type places are best served by constantly attempting to convert you. Would you convert in this case? I wouldn’t! It would be incredibly irritating, and hey, in real life, we do a pretty good job of ignoring anyone who goes around trying to sell us things, from door-to-door salesmen to Jehovah’s Witnesses.
This is a component of the argument: intentionally radicalizing yourself is hurtful because it doesn’t get you more options, just less restraint. I believe Deluks themself previously has endorsed the strategy of leaving options open to your future self after regretting a large charitable donation that they later thought was unwise. I believe this is part of the reason they are avoiding taking a pledge over an issue they care about.