I think behaviorly I act almost exactly as you do in terms of trying never to lie but often to evade questions. But for some reason the comment I’m responding to rubs me incredibly negatively. I’m reflecting on why, and I think the difference is that you actually have it easy. You’re trying to live radically honestly in, if I’m not mistaken, the middle of an enclave that has far more of the sort of people that would appreciate Lesswrong in your immediate vicinity than most people do. So you can basically choose to be extremely choosy about your friends in this regard.
Try holding everyone around to the same standard you live by when most of your neighbors and colleagues are not associated with the rationalist movement at all, and let’s see how far you get. Let me tell ya, it’s a wee bit harder. For most of us, “be lenient with others and strict with thyself” is a pretty natural default.
I suspect, from Chris’ perspective, if his choices are “be invited to Alicorn’s parties” and “be friends with other people at all,” he may go with the latter.
I believed lying was wrong during times of my life when I didn’t live in a rationalist enclave, too. Curating your friends is easier when you are willing to maintain friendships online. Dinner parties are a luxury I am happy to avail myself of, that’s all.
I grew up in rural Oklahoma, in the “buckle of the Bible Belt”, where anti-intellectualism ran rampant. I was radically honest then (not in the literal sense of “radical honesty”, but in the sense of what Alicorn seems to be advocating), and it didn’t make me very popular, being an atheist, a consequentialist, a transhumanist, and increasingly a libertarian. It didn’t make me very popular—but lying would have been much, much worse. Telling the truth merely made those people dislike me, but lying would have made me compromise my integrity.
“Those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter don’t mind.”
Which totally misses the point of the comment you’re responding to. This isn’t about whether we are radically honest. It’s about whether we insist on everyone we associate with also being radically honest as a condition of our association with them.
That’s a good point. I personally require people I associated with to be honest (except when their lives or livelihoods are at stake), as I hate being lied to. How people respond to this is up to them.
I think behaviorly I act almost exactly as you do in terms of trying never to lie but often to evade questions. But for some reason the comment I’m responding to rubs me incredibly negatively. I’m reflecting on why, and I think the difference is that you actually have it easy. You’re trying to live radically honestly in, if I’m not mistaken, the middle of an enclave that has far more of the sort of people that would appreciate Lesswrong in your immediate vicinity than most people do. So you can basically choose to be extremely choosy about your friends in this regard.
Try holding everyone around to the same standard you live by when most of your neighbors and colleagues are not associated with the rationalist movement at all, and let’s see how far you get. Let me tell ya, it’s a wee bit harder. For most of us, “be lenient with others and strict with thyself” is a pretty natural default.
I suspect, from Chris’ perspective, if his choices are “be invited to Alicorn’s parties” and “be friends with other people at all,” he may go with the latter.
I believed lying was wrong during times of my life when I didn’t live in a rationalist enclave, too. Curating your friends is easier when you are willing to maintain friendships online. Dinner parties are a luxury I am happy to avail myself of, that’s all.
I grew up in rural Oklahoma, in the “buckle of the Bible Belt”, where anti-intellectualism ran rampant. I was radically honest then (not in the literal sense of “radical honesty”, but in the sense of what Alicorn seems to be advocating), and it didn’t make me very popular, being an atheist, a consequentialist, a transhumanist, and increasingly a libertarian. It didn’t make me very popular—but lying would have been much, much worse. Telling the truth merely made those people dislike me, but lying would have made me compromise my integrity.
“Those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter don’t mind.”
Which totally misses the point of the comment you’re responding to. This isn’t about whether we are radically honest. It’s about whether we insist on everyone we associate with also being radically honest as a condition of our association with them.
That’s a good point. I personally require people I associated with to be honest (except when their lives or livelihoods are at stake), as I hate being lied to. How people respond to this is up to them.