Well I don’t know that I’ve got any “rationalist” cred, but as someone who at least attempts to approach life rationally, I am personally terrified by the prospect of being part of a cult because of the way cults seem to warp people’s capacity for thinking straightforwardly about reality. (And I could easily lump “religion” in with “cult” here in that regard).
Basically, I don’t like the way things I’d call “cultish” seem to disconnect people from concrete reality in favor of abstractions. I’ve seen some truly awful things happen as a result of that sort of mindset, and have also myself experienced an attempt at “indoctrination” into a sort of cult, and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. A person I knew and thought I could trust, and who seemed smart and reasonable enough, one day managed to trap me in an office under false pretenses and basically sat there berating me and telling me all kinds of horrible things about my character for two hours. And by the end of it, I was halfway ready to believe it, and my confidence and ability to do my schoolwork (this was in college) suffered for months afterward.
So I’m terrified of cults because I know how normal and reasonable their agents can seem at first, and how perfectly horrendous it is to find out what’s actually going on, and how difficult it can be afterward to pick up the pieces of your brain and go forward with your life. I don’t give a crap about the social-status stuff (well, beyond not wanting to be harassed, if that counts), I just don’t want anyone messing with my mind.
It was some kind of “neurolinguistic programming” thing. This particular incarnation of it entailed my first being yelled at until “[my] defenses were stripped away”, at which point I was supposed to accept this guy as a “master”. Later on it supposedly involved attending weird summer-camp type sessions where I was told people would undergo things that “felt like torture” but which they’d “come to appreciate”.
I didn’t go to any camp sessions and probably wouldn’t have attended them anyway for sheer lack of logistical finesse, but I am glad I had a co-worker point out to me that what was happening to me was emotional abuse at the very least.
That sounds more like est or Landmark/Forum or even Scientology… but nonetheless a LGAT (large-group awareness training—basically a synonym for cult indoctrination).
Legitimate NLP training doesn’t involve students getting yelled at, even offhandedly, let alone in any sort of systematic way. Anybody who claims to be teaching NLP in such a fashion needs to be reported to the organization that issued their certification, and then to the Society of NLP (so the organization’s trainer-training certification can be revoked, if they don’t revoke the trainer’s cert).
(That link goes to a particular training organization, but I don’t have any connection to them or offer any particular endorsement; it’s just a page with good buyers’ guidelines for ANY sort of training, let alone NLP. I’d also add that a legitimate NLP trainer will generally have enough work teaching paying customers, to have neither time nor reason to subject people to unsolicited “training”.)
Well I don’t know that I’ve got any “rationalist” cred, but as someone who at least attempts to approach life rationally, I am personally terrified by the prospect of being part of a cult because of the way cults seem to warp people’s capacity for thinking straightforwardly about reality. (And I could easily lump “religion” in with “cult” here in that regard).
Basically, I don’t like the way things I’d call “cultish” seem to disconnect people from concrete reality in favor of abstractions. I’ve seen some truly awful things happen as a result of that sort of mindset, and have also myself experienced an attempt at “indoctrination” into a sort of cult, and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. A person I knew and thought I could trust, and who seemed smart and reasonable enough, one day managed to trap me in an office under false pretenses and basically sat there berating me and telling me all kinds of horrible things about my character for two hours. And by the end of it, I was halfway ready to believe it, and my confidence and ability to do my schoolwork (this was in college) suffered for months afterward.
So I’m terrified of cults because I know how normal and reasonable their agents can seem at first, and how perfectly horrendous it is to find out what’s actually going on, and how difficult it can be afterward to pick up the pieces of your brain and go forward with your life. I don’t give a crap about the social-status stuff (well, beyond not wanting to be harassed, if that counts), I just don’t want anyone messing with my mind.
“a sort of cult,” But not a cult, full stop. Multi-level-marketers? I have seen some hideous zombification in that context.
It was some kind of “neurolinguistic programming” thing. This particular incarnation of it entailed my first being yelled at until “[my] defenses were stripped away”, at which point I was supposed to accept this guy as a “master”. Later on it supposedly involved attending weird summer-camp type sessions where I was told people would undergo things that “felt like torture” but which they’d “come to appreciate”.
I didn’t go to any camp sessions and probably wouldn’t have attended them anyway for sheer lack of logistical finesse, but I am glad I had a co-worker point out to me that what was happening to me was emotional abuse at the very least.
That sounds more like est or Landmark/Forum or even Scientology… but nonetheless a LGAT (large-group awareness training—basically a synonym for cult indoctrination).
Legitimate NLP training doesn’t involve students getting yelled at, even offhandedly, let alone in any sort of systematic way. Anybody who claims to be teaching NLP in such a fashion needs to be reported to the organization that issued their certification, and then to the Society of NLP (so the organization’s trainer-training certification can be revoked, if they don’t revoke the trainer’s cert).
(That link goes to a particular training organization, but I don’t have any connection to them or offer any particular endorsement; it’s just a page with good buyers’ guidelines for ANY sort of training, let alone NLP. I’d also add that a legitimate NLP trainer will generally have enough work teaching paying customers, to have neither time nor reason to subject people to unsolicited “training”.)