Meh. Paul Graham’s blog doesn’t allow comments. Neither does Stallman’s. And if you read OB via an RSS feed, there is no indication anywhere that other people are following along. And believing Eliezer is smart and right about a bunch of things doesn’t mean mindlessly following him on everything.
It doesn’t matter that Paul Graham and Stallman don’t allow comments. People know them, they have very high reputation, and plenty of fanboys, that all makes them high social status individuals. Mindlessly following the leader is not the same as mindlessly following the group, both are real and distinct behaviours.
People feel differently reading something by Paul Graham and something by blogger they’ve never heard about. You might have gotten so used to social status indicators you don’t consciously see them. Go to 4chan (not /b/), see what discussion is like without them. It is actually surprisingly good.
People feel differently reading something by Paul Graham and something by blogger they’ve never heard about.
Which people, and how do you know? The first time I read a PG essay, I’d never heard of him. I think you’re confusing the cause and effect about people following—at least where some people are concerned. PG, RMS, and EY aren’t convincing because they have followers, they have followers because they’re convincing.
Now, if you’re saying the status indicators are in their writing, then that’s another story. It’s arguably a status symbol merely to speak possibly-unpopular and/ore weird opinions in an authoritative voice without weaseling or implying that you’re a persecuted minority or even so much as dignifying the possibility that people might disagree with you.
This is mostly agreeing to the same point, but I’m going to say it anyway because I think it’s important.
I stumbled on Eliezer’s writing fairly randomly (link to OB as an interesting blog). I was immediately sucked in. In fact, I was discussing the subject of modern-day genius with a friend, and after having read two or three of his posts, I sent my friend a link saying something like “this Eliezer guy seems like a pretty legit modern genius.” [He replied with “psshhh… he’s just working in a hyped-up field.” (I don’ t think he really read the posts)]. I had absolutely no idea of the depth of his ideas nor any of the broader social context at the time. I just knew it was making sense.
Same with Paul Graham. I stumbled on his website even more randomly. I did a google search for “procrastination” while procrastinating one night. And I was hooked. Again, I had no idea about his accomplishments or social status or associations, I just knew that his writing resonated with me.
What it is for me is a deep connection with the ideas in the writing. It’s not just a matter of “hmm… interesting idea,” but rather “WOW. That’s EXACTLY how I feel. But explained so much more clearly.”
I could lump Ayn Rand into the same group to an extent.
I agree that the “cultishness” is somewhat disconcerting. But I think there’s much more to it than that. I think the fact that the names of three of the writers whose writing has deeply resonated with me philosophically, writers who I have come across through completely different means, have been mentioned in the comments in this post, is very telling. I suspect that people are predisposed to a certain way of understanding the world, and when they find ideas that resonate with that understanding, they latch on. It’s just that some people are much better at communicating, or make the effort to communicate, these ideas.
(This comment opens a can of worms as it could imply that there are various correct ways or understanding the world, and that rationalism is not necessarily THE way. But perhaps certain people are more predisposed to the idea of rationalism? And perhaps it is THE way, but certain people can just never come close to overcoming their views of the world imposed from their upbringing to have the ideas resonate with them?)
Either way, my main point is that it’s not just a matter of blind worship.
Meh. Paul Graham’s blog doesn’t allow comments. Neither does Stallman’s. And if you read OB via an RSS feed, there is no indication anywhere that other people are following along. And believing Eliezer is smart and right about a bunch of things doesn’t mean mindlessly following him on everything.
It doesn’t matter that Paul Graham and Stallman don’t allow comments. People know them, they have very high reputation, and plenty of fanboys, that all makes them high social status individuals. Mindlessly following the leader is not the same as mindlessly following the group, both are real and distinct behaviours.
People feel differently reading something by Paul Graham and something by blogger they’ve never heard about. You might have gotten so used to social status indicators you don’t consciously see them. Go to 4chan (not /b/), see what discussion is like without them. It is actually surprisingly good.
Which people, and how do you know? The first time I read a PG essay, I’d never heard of him. I think you’re confusing the cause and effect about people following—at least where some people are concerned. PG, RMS, and EY aren’t convincing because they have followers, they have followers because they’re convincing.
Now, if you’re saying the status indicators are in their writing, then that’s another story. It’s arguably a status symbol merely to speak possibly-unpopular and/ore weird opinions in an authoritative voice without weaseling or implying that you’re a persecuted minority or even so much as dignifying the possibility that people might disagree with you.
This is mostly agreeing to the same point, but I’m going to say it anyway because I think it’s important.
I stumbled on Eliezer’s writing fairly randomly (link to OB as an interesting blog). I was immediately sucked in. In fact, I was discussing the subject of modern-day genius with a friend, and after having read two or three of his posts, I sent my friend a link saying something like “this Eliezer guy seems like a pretty legit modern genius.” [He replied with “psshhh… he’s just working in a hyped-up field.” (I don’ t think he really read the posts)]. I had absolutely no idea of the depth of his ideas nor any of the broader social context at the time. I just knew it was making sense.
Same with Paul Graham. I stumbled on his website even more randomly. I did a google search for “procrastination” while procrastinating one night. And I was hooked. Again, I had no idea about his accomplishments or social status or associations, I just knew that his writing resonated with me.
What it is for me is a deep connection with the ideas in the writing. It’s not just a matter of “hmm… interesting idea,” but rather “WOW. That’s EXACTLY how I feel. But explained so much more clearly.”
I could lump Ayn Rand into the same group to an extent.
I agree that the “cultishness” is somewhat disconcerting. But I think there’s much more to it than that. I think the fact that the names of three of the writers whose writing has deeply resonated with me philosophically, writers who I have come across through completely different means, have been mentioned in the comments in this post, is very telling. I suspect that people are predisposed to a certain way of understanding the world, and when they find ideas that resonate with that understanding, they latch on. It’s just that some people are much better at communicating, or make the effort to communicate, these ideas.
(This comment opens a can of worms as it could imply that there are various correct ways or understanding the world, and that rationalism is not necessarily THE way. But perhaps certain people are more predisposed to the idea of rationalism? And perhaps it is THE way, but certain people can just never come close to overcoming their views of the world imposed from their upbringing to have the ideas resonate with them?)
Either way, my main point is that it’s not just a matter of blind worship.