I’m dubious of the “vegetables are obviously wonderful” meme. We almost never see hunter-gatherer groups pursue leafy or cruciferous veggies as a source of significant calories. Instead we see a lot more calories coming from starchy sources, tubers etc. In my investigation of micronutrient content, I haven’t seen much evidence that there are any substances you get from leafy/cruciferous veggies you can’t get elsewhere pretty easily. I think the reason they show a link to longevity is that the person who eats lots of vegetables is either consciously or inadvertently optimizing their diet for high micronutrient content*, and I think there are other ways to get there. I wouldn’t mind being wrong about this if anyone has some contrary evidence.
*A study on seasonal fluctuations in the micronutrient contents of foods correlated very well to mortality and sickness in New Zealand, this area of research deserves a lot more study than it is currently getting.
I don’t think humans have a digestive system capable of using leafy or cruciferous veggies as a major source of calories… nearly all of their calories are in the form of fermentable fiber which supplies energy by fermentation in colon to short chain fats. Unlike hindgut fermenter herbivores our colon isn’t large enough to supply much energy this way.
We almost never see hunter-gatherer groups pursue leafy or cruciferous veggies as a source of significant calories.
Eh, but they still ate some, and ate plenty of starchy stems and root vegetables. Also, in modern first-world diets, I’d say the biggest thing vegetables provide is fiber, which was also provided in hunter-gatherer diets by un-domesticated grains or seeds.
Every hunter gatherer culture was/is different, but I don’t think any consume large quantities of grains or seeds- that was mostly only made practical as a major source of calories by the development of agriculture.
It’s not clear that humans actually need much insoluble fiber (what’s mostly found in grains and seeds) for good health. Starchy tubers (which make up as much as 70% of calories in many equatorial hunter gatherer societies such as the Kitvavans) are a good source of soluble fiber, which acts as a substrate for gut bacteria.
Compared to agricultural diets, I suspect that most hunter gatherers had much higher consumption of soluble fiber (primarily from leafy vegetables and tubers), and much lower consumption of insoluble fiber.
Every hunter gatherer culture was/is different, but I don’t think any consume large quantities of grains or seeds- that was mostly only made practical as a major source of calories by the development of agriculture.
Oh, okay. I was thinking of un-domesticated seeds like sumpweed when I said that, but wikipedia ways it was “cultivated,” so I was wrong.
We know a lot less about hunter-gatherers than most people think, and hunter-gatherer tribes fluctuate a lot in terms of their diets/lifestyles, as one would expect with the diversity of the world.
Vegetables tend to be low calorie, so you wouldn’t expect tribes to expend a lot of effort getting them. That doesn’t really apply to a modern environment where getting enough calories isn’t a concern and vegetables can be bought at your local supermarket.
I’m dubious of the “vegetables are obviously wonderful” meme. We almost never see hunter-gatherer groups pursue leafy or cruciferous veggies as a source of significant calories. Instead we see a lot more calories coming from starchy sources, tubers etc. In my investigation of micronutrient content, I haven’t seen much evidence that there are any substances you get from leafy/cruciferous veggies you can’t get elsewhere pretty easily. I think the reason they show a link to longevity is that the person who eats lots of vegetables is either consciously or inadvertently optimizing their diet for high micronutrient content*, and I think there are other ways to get there. I wouldn’t mind being wrong about this if anyone has some contrary evidence.
*A study on seasonal fluctuations in the micronutrient contents of foods correlated very well to mortality and sickness in New Zealand, this area of research deserves a lot more study than it is currently getting.
I don’t think humans have a digestive system capable of using leafy or cruciferous veggies as a major source of calories… nearly all of their calories are in the form of fermentable fiber which supplies energy by fermentation in colon to short chain fats. Unlike hindgut fermenter herbivores our colon isn’t large enough to supply much energy this way.
Eh, but they still ate some, and ate plenty of starchy stems and root vegetables. Also, in modern first-world diets, I’d say the biggest thing vegetables provide is fiber, which was also provided in hunter-gatherer diets by un-domesticated grains or seeds.
Every hunter gatherer culture was/is different, but I don’t think any consume large quantities of grains or seeds- that was mostly only made practical as a major source of calories by the development of agriculture.
It’s not clear that humans actually need much insoluble fiber (what’s mostly found in grains and seeds) for good health. Starchy tubers (which make up as much as 70% of calories in many equatorial hunter gatherer societies such as the Kitvavans) are a good source of soluble fiber, which acts as a substrate for gut bacteria.
Compared to agricultural diets, I suspect that most hunter gatherers had much higher consumption of soluble fiber (primarily from leafy vegetables and tubers), and much lower consumption of insoluble fiber.
Oh, okay. I was thinking of un-domesticated seeds like sumpweed when I said that, but wikipedia ways it was “cultivated,” so I was wrong.
We know a lot less about hunter-gatherers than most people think, and hunter-gatherer tribes fluctuate a lot in terms of their diets/lifestyles, as one would expect with the diversity of the world.
Vegetables tend to be low calorie, so you wouldn’t expect tribes to expend a lot of effort getting them. That doesn’t really apply to a modern environment where getting enough calories isn’t a concern and vegetables can be bought at your local supermarket.