I think most people on LW fall into one of two groups:
People who were raised in the urban liberal milleu. Religion simply isn’t part of their worldview; their attitude toward it is not even unbelief. For them going to church is like raising alpacas; they are aware that some people do it but they don’t see much value in it, it doesn’t fit into their lifestyles, and it would take a rather long intellectual journey to convince them to do it themselves.
People who, like me, were raised around religion. As LWers are generally thoughtful people, we have generally considered religion to our satisfaction many years ago. Each of us had a particular journey but I suspect my conclusions are, if not typical, then not highly atypical either:
My understanding of neuroscience has convinced me that consciousness is fundamentally dependent on the brain. I don’t believe in an afterlife (cryogenics and mind-uploading ideas notwithstanding).
Since I do not expect to face divine judgement, I am not greatly concerned about the existence or nonexistence of God. I think of theology as much like an ant trying to understand presidential politics. Understanding is highly unlikely and the ant has better things to do.
The Durkheimian “society worshiping itself” phenomenon is real, common, and by no means limited to religion as traditionally defined. It is often wildly irrational and is pretty much the opposite of what LW aspires to.
If you’re trying to reach the first group, I would recommend trying to bring them into contact with organized religion via some sort of common interest (probably effective altruism). The second group is generally going to be much harder to reach.
Thank you, I find this comment quite constructive.
My understanding of neuroscience has convinced me that consciousness is fundamentally dependent on the brain.
I had a similar journey.
The Durkheimian “society worshiping itself” phenomenon is real, common, and by no means limited to religion as traditionally defined. It is often wildly irrational and is pretty much the opposite of what LW aspires to.
I guess this can take a pretty nasty and irrational form, but I see this continuous with other benign community bonding rituals and pro-social behavior (like Petrov day or the solstice).
I should mention that, like many people who were raised religious and lost their faith, I miss it. It was comforting to believe that the world was in good hands and that it all could work out in the end. I had friends at church. Many of them were attractive females.
Losing my religion felt less like an act of will and more like figuring out the answer to a math problem. It wasn’t something I wanted, rather the opposite. I fought it for a while, but there’s no cure for enlightenment. I’ve tried to go back to church, but it just doesn’t work when you don’t believe in it. I no longer see God there, just some schmuck wearing felt.
I guess this can take a pretty nasty and irrational form, but I see this continuous with other benign community bonding rituals and pro-social behavior (like Petrov day or the solstice).
I agree, I just think that community bonding rituals have such a strong tendency to lead to ingroup-vs-outgroup conflicts that I am much more skeptical of the whole idea than you seem to be.
Part of this is my perception that generally neither group is entirely right about every issue, and therefore no group I pick will have my wholehearted support. This is acceptable; compromise on less crucial matters is often the price of working toward your most important goals. Having said that, I think it’s important to remember what your important goals are and to periodically ask yourself whether the gains are still worth the compromises. Durkheimian worship is rather directly contrary to this sort of cost-benefit analysis.
I think most people on LW fall into one of two groups:
People who were raised in the urban liberal milleu. Religion simply isn’t part of their worldview; their attitude toward it is not even unbelief. For them going to church is like raising alpacas; they are aware that some people do it but they don’t see much value in it, it doesn’t fit into their lifestyles, and it would take a rather long intellectual journey to convince them to do it themselves.
People who, like me, were raised around religion. As LWers are generally thoughtful people, we have generally considered religion to our satisfaction many years ago. Each of us had a particular journey but I suspect my conclusions are, if not typical, then not highly atypical either:
My understanding of neuroscience has convinced me that consciousness is fundamentally dependent on the brain. I don’t believe in an afterlife (cryogenics and mind-uploading ideas notwithstanding).
Since I do not expect to face divine judgement, I am not greatly concerned about the existence or nonexistence of God. I think of theology as much like an ant trying to understand presidential politics. Understanding is highly unlikely and the ant has better things to do.
The Durkheimian “society worshiping itself” phenomenon is real, common, and by no means limited to religion as traditionally defined. It is often wildly irrational and is pretty much the opposite of what LW aspires to.
If you’re trying to reach the first group, I would recommend trying to bring them into contact with organized religion via some sort of common interest (probably effective altruism). The second group is generally going to be much harder to reach.
Thank you, I find this comment quite constructive.
I had a similar journey.
I guess this can take a pretty nasty and irrational form, but I see this continuous with other benign community bonding rituals and pro-social behavior (like Petrov day or the solstice).
I should mention that, like many people who were raised religious and lost their faith, I miss it. It was comforting to believe that the world was in good hands and that it all could work out in the end. I had friends at church. Many of them were attractive females.
Losing my religion felt less like an act of will and more like figuring out the answer to a math problem. It wasn’t something I wanted, rather the opposite. I fought it for a while, but there’s no cure for enlightenment. I’ve tried to go back to church, but it just doesn’t work when you don’t believe in it. I no longer see God there, just some schmuck wearing felt.
I agree, I just think that community bonding rituals have such a strong tendency to lead to ingroup-vs-outgroup conflicts that I am much more skeptical of the whole idea than you seem to be.
Part of this is my perception that generally neither group is entirely right about every issue, and therefore no group I pick will have my wholehearted support. This is acceptable; compromise on less crucial matters is often the price of working toward your most important goals. Having said that, I think it’s important to remember what your important goals are and to periodically ask yourself whether the gains are still worth the compromises. Durkheimian worship is rather directly contrary to this sort of cost-benefit analysis.
Or it could just be that I’m Aspergian, and my normal modes of thinking are highly anti-correlated with religion.