So the hold of on solutions thing isn’t wrong but in this case we’ve talked about how LW is difficult for newcomers many, many times before. An FAQ has long been something we agreed on, it hasn’t gotten done for reasons of akrasia. In this case, postponing work on the FAQ because we need to keep talking about the problem is just going to make it less likely that the work gets done.
I remember the last time we had this discussion, my conclusion was that we needed “better newcomer orientation”.
An FAQ is a (possibly) necessary, and (probably) not sufficient, component of a set of solutions leading to the outcome “better newcomer orientation”.
What we are planning is, by the way, not literally an FAQ. The Lurkers thread didn’t reveal frequent questions people had that we’re not answering, or that they have trouble finding the answers to.
It did reveal a frequent observation, namely that people find the site intimidating.
I suspect that no amount of answering frequently-not-asked questions (in an out of the way page) is going to fix that.
I do believe that more discussion of which kinds of top-level posts and which attitudes in the comment stream encourage or discourage participation could fix that.
I do believe that more discussion of which kinds of top-level posts and which attitudes in the comment stream encourage or discourage participation could fix that.
We should talk about this. We should also just write an FAQ. We don’t need to postpone the latter for the former.
What we are planning is, by the way, not literally an FAQ. The Lurkers thread didn’t reveal frequent questions people had that we’re not answering, or that they have trouble finding the answers to.
The Lurkers aren’t who the FAQ is for- if they’ve been lurking a while they’ve probably figured a lot out. But when new users show up who haven’t been lurking the same topics have come up repeatedly.
We can now do better than “lots”, thanks to Kevin.
Someone with some time on their hands could, for instance, tabulate the top-level comments among the 422 posted to “Attention Lurkers”.
I’ve trialed that on a small sample. Out of the 22 first comments, 11 say something that I interpret as “intimidated”, 3 say something to the effect that they’re no longer interested by the topics on LW, 8 say that they’re lurkers but OK with it (or say nothing beyond “hi”). So that’s roughly half of them explicitly saying they’re intimidated.
The more salient fact to me is that all 22 did write a comment when encouraged to do so and the barrier to participation was suitably lowered.
Another salient comment: “Anytime anyone wants to discuss prenatal diagnosis and the ethical implications, let me know”, that being the commenter’s area of expertise. We may be missing out on many opportunities to engage, by failing to deliberately open up discussions on topics where the community has hidden expertise.
I’m thinking I will write up a poll-type post asking people what their area of professional expertise is, and which issue in their domain they think would most benefit from application of the techniques discussed on LW.
I’m thinking I will write up a poll-type post asking people what their area of professional expertise is, and which issue in their domain they think would most benefit from application of the techniques discussed on LW.
...and which techniques of their domain could benefit LW by being discussed, I would add.
Are you definitely going to do that “Ask Less Wrong”? I want to post it now but don’t want to take your karma/status for having that idea… so if you don’t plan on making it in the next 24 hours, can I make it? It can really just be a question, the post itself should be very short.
I’d prefer to sleep on it. This isn’t quite a spur-of-the-moment idea, I’ve had this idea for a post setting forth a “marketplace” metaphor for such discussions for a while.
But possibly the post asking for expertise info should be separate from that anyway, for housekeeping reasons.
Should probably happen within 24h anyway, but we’ve had a fair number of posts just today, so it’s best to let things calm down a bit.
ETA: it’s not quite “Ask LW”, more like “Tell LW”. ;)
The desired outcome was that I made this top-level post right before going to sleep, then other people expanded and improved the FAQ as a result of me calling attention to it, which seems to have happened.
Normally a good question, but it’s been answered already: the community is intimidating to new contributors. There are lots of frequently asked questions, and they deserve answering.
“We need a FAQ” is solution language.
Why do we think we need one? What appears to be the problem?
What is the desired outcome?
So the hold of on solutions thing isn’t wrong but in this case we’ve talked about how LW is difficult for newcomers many, many times before. An FAQ has long been something we agreed on, it hasn’t gotten done for reasons of akrasia. In this case, postponing work on the FAQ because we need to keep talking about the problem is just going to make it less likely that the work gets done.
I remember the last time we had this discussion, my conclusion was that we needed “better newcomer orientation”.
An FAQ is a (possibly) necessary, and (probably) not sufficient, component of a set of solutions leading to the outcome “better newcomer orientation”.
What we are planning is, by the way, not literally an FAQ. The Lurkers thread didn’t reveal frequent questions people had that we’re not answering, or that they have trouble finding the answers to.
It did reveal a frequent observation, namely that people find the site intimidating.
I suspect that no amount of answering frequently-not-asked questions (in an out of the way page) is going to fix that.
I do believe that more discussion of which kinds of top-level posts and which attitudes in the comment stream encourage or discourage participation could fix that.
We should talk about this. We should also just write an FAQ. We don’t need to postpone the latter for the former.
The Lurkers aren’t who the FAQ is for- if they’ve been lurking a while they’ve probably figured a lot out. But when new users show up who haven’t been lurking the same topics have come up repeatedly.
Lots of lurkers who claim to be intimidated by our site, and lots of non-lurkers seemingly unfamiliar with our standards.
We can now do better than “lots”, thanks to Kevin.
Someone with some time on their hands could, for instance, tabulate the top-level comments among the 422 posted to “Attention Lurkers”.
I’ve trialed that on a small sample. Out of the 22 first comments, 11 say something that I interpret as “intimidated”, 3 say something to the effect that they’re no longer interested by the topics on LW, 8 say that they’re lurkers but OK with it (or say nothing beyond “hi”). So that’s roughly half of them explicitly saying they’re intimidated.
The more salient fact to me is that all 22 did write a comment when encouraged to do so and the barrier to participation was suitably lowered.
Another salient comment: “Anytime anyone wants to discuss prenatal diagnosis and the ethical implications, let me know”, that being the commenter’s area of expertise. We may be missing out on many opportunities to engage, by failing to deliberately open up discussions on topics where the community has hidden expertise.
I’m thinking I will write up a poll-type post asking people what their area of professional expertise is, and which issue in their domain they think would most benefit from application of the techniques discussed on LW.
...and which techniques of their domain could benefit LW by being discussed, I would add.
Are you definitely going to do that “Ask Less Wrong”? I want to post it now but don’t want to take your karma/status for having that idea… so if you don’t plan on making it in the next 24 hours, can I make it? It can really just be a question, the post itself should be very short.
I’d prefer to sleep on it. This isn’t quite a spur-of-the-moment idea, I’ve had this idea for a post setting forth a “marketplace” metaphor for such discussions for a while.
But possibly the post asking for expertise info should be separate from that anyway, for housekeeping reasons.
Should probably happen within 24h anyway, but we’ve had a fair number of posts just today, so it’s best to let things calm down a bit.
ETA: it’s not quite “Ask LW”, more like “Tell LW”. ;)
The desired outcome was that I made this top-level post right before going to sleep, then other people expanded and improved the FAQ as a result of me calling attention to it, which seems to have happened.
Normally a good question, but it’s been answered already: the community is intimidating to new contributors. There are lots of frequently asked questions, and they deserve answering.