A nausea was in his stomach, a churning sensation that, looking back in memory, seemed both like and unlike a sense of guilt, as though it had the sensations but not quite all of the emotion.
Heh, so Quirrell doesn’t know what guilt feels like.
Centaur spears can block many spells, but no one tries to block if they see that the spell is a certain shade of green. For this purpose it is useful to know some green stunning hexes.
This reminds me, if you can make a homing version of the stunning spell, can you make a homing version of the killing curse? Sounds like that would be useful.
The chapter endings for 100 and 101 are a little odd. They stop very abruptly, specially 101. Usually you would get an extra sentence or paragraph to give the chapter a sense of closure.
The reason Quirell and Harry cannot interact magically is supposed to be so Quirrell cannot read harry’s mind, memory charm him, confound him, or outright imperio him. But this feels a little weak to me. What’s stopping Quirrell from threatening, bribing, tricking, imperiousing, etc… a third party to do it on his behalf?
Centaur spears can block many spells, but no one tries to block if they see that the spell is a certain shade of green. For this purpose it is useful to know some green stunning hexes.
At no point does Quirrell say “I just used such a spell on this centaur”. I’m not ruling out that he killed the thing, and made an inferius in front of Harry. That would explain the unusually (?) sharp sense of doom that Harry felt when he “revived” it.
Also a possibility: memory charming a centaur is a lot harder, since they’re only passingly similar to humans, so Quirrel had to draw more heavily on his magic, which in turn resulted in a sharper sense of doom.
Wow, it’s amazing how obvious the Inferius seems now that you’ve said it.
I was reading another comment elsewhere on the page which claimed there must be some magical explanation for how Harry’s managed to miss that Quirrell=Voldemort. And my first thought was, “yeah, he sat there with his wand on the centaur for a long time instead of just saying ‘Innervate’ and then ‘Obliviate’ and Harry still believed him”. That actually seemed to me like an extraordinary thing that needed explaining.
But, then I remembered: I didn’t think of it. I read this chapter days ago, I’ve been talking about it, theorizing, and *I didn’t see it. And now it seems so obvious that I look for a supernatural explanation for why Harry didn’t see it?
EDIT: As I brought up elsewhere, another reason Quirrell would be drawing heavily on his magic is to read Firenze’s mind everything he knows about the future.
I’m actually not sure how bright Harry’s supposed to be.
He’s not stupid, obviously. But, from a Watsonian perspective, he’s leaning very heavily on rationality skills and an unusual reading list for an 11-year-old, Hermione seems to have him beat in some respects as far as raw intelligence goes, and being the smartest person in a class of a hundred and change isn’t that great an achievement in the scheme of things.
From a Doylist perspective, making Harry get a lot of mileage out of raw intelligence would undermine the message Eliezer’s presumably trying to preach.
An increase in the sense of doom? What if Quirrel can possess many bodies at once. He created Voldi to have a villain to fight back in the olden days and then retired Voldi when he got sick of it. He periodically takes over other people’s bodies for his own ends, sometimes even when he’s not in his ‘zombie mode’. Perhaps the variability in the sense of doom is correlated with his extra-body activities. When he takes over the body of a dead centaur, you get an increase in the sense of doom. The fact that he’s not in ‘zombie mode’ at the same time as possessing the centaur might makes things even worse.
This would mean of course that Voldimort isn’t Quirrel—Quirrel is Voldimort. Quirrel isn’t out and out evil the way Voldi is. He simply invented a larger than life character so that he can play the good guy. Being possessed of normal human emotions, his fondness for Harry could be real.
I don’t think inferii are possessed by their creators. Pretty sure they’re just zombies that do the summoners’ bidding. I always thought the sense of doom was related to how strongly Quirrel was drawing on his power.
Quirrel isn’t out and out evil the way Voldi is. He simply invented a larger than life character so that he can play the good guy.
Whether Voldemort’s persona was or wasn’t real, the suffering caused by him was real.
If I would for some reason decide to pretend that I’m Voldemort, and I would kill many people (shooting them by gun while pretending to cast Avada Kedavra), finding out this all was a disguise would prove that I’m not Voldemort, and that Voldemort’s professed beliefs don’t have to be my actual beliefs… but I would be a horrible person anyway.
Then he would rule the world the day he decided to rule the world (which he did at one point, at least extending to magical Britain). A single Quirrell is among the most powerful wizards in the world. A team of Quirrells would have no meaningful opposition, even before he took advantage of the hive-mind benefits of instant coordination and reaction.
Being possessed of normal human emotions, his fondness for Harry could be real.
That would imply that all the words and actions that portray him as a sociopath are an act for Harry’s benefit. What would his motivation be in doing this?
The reason Quirell and Harry cannot interact magically is supposed to be so Quirrell cannot read harry’s mind, memory charm him, confound him, or outright imperio him.
The reason for a fact of the HPMOR universe is narrative convenience for the author?
Maybe so, but I’ve been wondering if the in universe reason is that Harry is a time turned Quirrell.
In canon, Harry and Voldemort have a complicated magical relationship due to two separate spells placed on Harry due to the events at Godrick’s Hollow. Harry and Quirrell’s connection in HPMoR appears to be a simplified version of that.
In canon, Harry only ever tried casting spells on Voldemort twice, and both times it was Expeliarmis, and in both cases, Voldemort simultaneously fired Avada Kedavra, and in both cases, wandlore ended it in Harry’s favor (in the first case, it was because their wands share a common core, which may or may not be due to their magical link. This one is notable, because it prevented Harry from casting on Voldemort as much as it prevented Voldemort from casting on Harry, but without his wand, Harry was still vulnerable to Voldemort’s crucio. This effect was a flashier version of what happened in Azkaban, including a light show and images of the last few people Voldemort killed climbing out of his wand.)
Voldemort tried using Luceus’s wand in later books to get around the wand problem, but this failed for reasons that did not seem adequately explained (something to do with wand ownership?)
I expect Quirrell was using his Alder wand in Azkaban instead of Foldemort’s yew, in which case the connection in HPMoR presumably recurses a level.
If we use canon as a guide, if Harry touches Quirrell, it will cause them both pain (sense of doom), but to Quirrell it will do physical damage (Lilly’s sacrificial protection). I expect there to be less of an imbalance in Harry’s favor in HPMoR, but I didn’t expect the troll or the unicorns, so my HPMoR predictions aren’t so high confidence.
But the side it turned to was the side necessary to hit its original target. Given that spells have some sort of natural AI (like the enchantment on Harry’s pouch), and that basic wanded magic is just a matter of triggering a pre-defined effect by saying an incantation while moving in the right way, it seems more likely that the spell was intelligent enough to change direction to hit its target than that Harry pre-programmed it with that specific directional change during casting.
In canon at least, the protagonists do nothing but dodge Avada Kedavras in a number of confrontation scenes. It has to be that way, because no Death Eater would be stupid enough to use anything but Avada Kedavra on a target they weren’t trying to take alive, and most characters had enough plot armour not to die in a random firefight.
no Death Eater would be stupid enough to use anything but Avada Kedavra on a target they weren’t trying to take alive
Doesn’t AK use more magical energy than a simple stun ? Or just require longer to cast ? “Avada Kedavra” is longer to say than “Stupefy” or “Expelliarmus”, at least.
But it is unblockable and precludes the target being revived in the first case or recovering their wand/grabbing someone else’s/running away in the latter. In particular, HPMOR makes a very big deal out of any decent wizard being able to put up a dozen different shields, sometimes all but instantly, so unblockable spells are an extremely big deal.
In HPMOR, it also penetrates at least some thickness of cover, according to Moody, who also suggests that it does need significant mana. (How much mana? I’m getting the impression that Stupify is acceptable for Auror-level combat despite being castable by top first-years.)
It also cannot be countered. We don’t see much of countering in HPMOR, but we do see Susan try to counter an extremely powerful bully’s spell in the SPHEW.
Heh, so Quirrell doesn’t know what guilt feels like.
This reminds me, if you can make a homing version of the stunning spell, can you make a homing version of the killing curse? Sounds like that would be useful.
The chapter endings for 100 and 101 are a little odd. They stop very abruptly, specially 101. Usually you would get an extra sentence or paragraph to give the chapter a sense of closure.
The reason Quirell and Harry cannot interact magically is supposed to be so Quirrell cannot read harry’s mind, memory charm him, confound him, or outright imperio him. But this feels a little weak to me. What’s stopping Quirrell from threatening, bribing, tricking, imperiousing, etc… a third party to do it on his behalf?
And if the homing version of “Stupify” is “Stuporfy,” how ridiculously twisted would AK get? “Averder Kerderber?”
Abracadabra, surely.
At no point does Quirrell say “I just used such a spell on this centaur”. I’m not ruling out that he killed the thing, and made an inferius in front of Harry. That would explain the unusually (?) sharp sense of doom that Harry felt when he “revived” it.
Also a possibility: memory charming a centaur is a lot harder, since they’re only passingly similar to humans, so Quirrel had to draw more heavily on his magic, which in turn resulted in a sharper sense of doom.
Wow, it’s amazing how obvious the Inferius seems now that you’ve said it.
I was reading another comment elsewhere on the page which claimed there must be some magical explanation for how Harry’s managed to miss that Quirrell=Voldemort. And my first thought was, “yeah, he sat there with his wand on the centaur for a long time instead of just saying ‘Innervate’ and then ‘Obliviate’ and Harry still believed him”. That actually seemed to me like an extraordinary thing that needed explaining.
But, then I remembered: I didn’t think of it. I read this chapter days ago, I’ve been talking about it, theorizing, and *I didn’t see it. And now it seems so obvious that I look for a supernatural explanation for why Harry didn’t see it?
EDIT: As I brought up elsewhere, another reason Quirrell would be drawing heavily on his magic is to read Firenze’s mind everything he knows about the future.
But you’re forgetting that Harry is smarter than you! :-P
I’m actually not sure how bright Harry’s supposed to be.
He’s not stupid, obviously. But, from a Watsonian perspective, he’s leaning very heavily on rationality skills and an unusual reading list for an 11-year-old, Hermione seems to have him beat in some respects as far as raw intelligence goes, and being the smartest person in a class of a hundred and change isn’t that great an achievement in the scheme of things.
From a Doylist perspective, making Harry get a lot of mileage out of raw intelligence would undermine the message Eliezer’s presumably trying to preach.
This doesn’t matter very much, though, since we know Quirrell would not hesitate to utter a direct lie if it served his purposes.
That’s true. Quirrell has played the “mislead without lying” game in the past though, hence I’m not ruling it out.
An increase in the sense of doom? What if Quirrel can possess many bodies at once. He created Voldi to have a villain to fight back in the olden days and then retired Voldi when he got sick of it. He periodically takes over other people’s bodies for his own ends, sometimes even when he’s not in his ‘zombie mode’. Perhaps the variability in the sense of doom is correlated with his extra-body activities. When he takes over the body of a dead centaur, you get an increase in the sense of doom. The fact that he’s not in ‘zombie mode’ at the same time as possessing the centaur might makes things even worse.
This would mean of course that Voldimort isn’t Quirrel—Quirrel is Voldimort. Quirrel isn’t out and out evil the way Voldi is. He simply invented a larger than life character so that he can play the good guy. Being possessed of normal human emotions, his fondness for Harry could be real.
I don’t think inferii are possessed by their creators. Pretty sure they’re just zombies that do the summoners’ bidding. I always thought the sense of doom was related to how strongly Quirrel was drawing on his power.
Whether Voldemort’s persona was or wasn’t real, the suffering caused by him was real.
If I would for some reason decide to pretend that I’m Voldemort, and I would kill many people (shooting them by gun while pretending to cast Avada Kedavra), finding out this all was a disguise would prove that I’m not Voldemort, and that Voldemort’s professed beliefs don’t have to be my actual beliefs… but I would be a horrible person anyway.
It depends on what your reason for adopting the persona in the first place was.
Then he would rule the world the day he decided to rule the world (which he did at one point, at least extending to magical Britain). A single Quirrell is among the most powerful wizards in the world. A team of Quirrells would have no meaningful opposition, even before he took advantage of the hive-mind benefits of instant coordination and reaction.
That would imply that all the words and actions that portray him as a sociopath are an act for Harry’s benefit. What would his motivation be in doing this?
The reason for a fact of the HPMOR universe is narrative convenience for the author?
Maybe so, but I’ve been wondering if the in universe reason is that Harry is a time turned Quirrell.
In canon, Harry and Voldemort have a complicated magical relationship due to two separate spells placed on Harry due to the events at Godrick’s Hollow. Harry and Quirrell’s connection in HPMoR appears to be a simplified version of that.
In canon, was there any reason Harry couldn’t cast a spell on Voldemort?
In canon, Harry only ever tried casting spells on Voldemort twice, and both times it was Expeliarmis, and in both cases, Voldemort simultaneously fired Avada Kedavra, and in both cases, wandlore ended it in Harry’s favor (in the first case, it was because their wands share a common core, which may or may not be due to their magical link. This one is notable, because it prevented Harry from casting on Voldemort as much as it prevented Voldemort from casting on Harry, but without his wand, Harry was still vulnerable to Voldemort’s crucio. This effect was a flashier version of what happened in Azkaban, including a light show and images of the last few people Voldemort killed climbing out of his wand.)
Voldemort tried using Luceus’s wand in later books to get around the wand problem, but this failed for reasons that did not seem adequately explained (something to do with wand ownership?)
I expect Quirrell was using his Alder wand in Azkaban instead of Foldemort’s yew, in which case the connection in HPMoR presumably recurses a level.
If we use canon as a guide, if Harry touches Quirrell, it will cause them both pain (sense of doom), but to Quirrell it will do physical damage (Lilly’s sacrificial protection). I expect there to be less of an imbalance in Harry’s favor in HPMoR, but I didn’t expect the troll or the unicorns, so my HPMoR predictions aren’t so high confidence.
He doesn’t trust a third party to do this without getting caught?
iirc, that spell wasn’t homing, it just turned to the side at the end.
But the side it turned to was the side necessary to hit its original target. Given that spells have some sort of natural AI (like the enchantment on Harry’s pouch), and that basic wanded magic is just a matter of triggering a pre-defined effect by saying an incantation while moving in the right way, it seems more likely that the spell was intelligent enough to change direction to hit its target than that Harry pre-programmed it with that specific directional change during casting.
IDK. Moody suggests that the spell might already be mildly homing or at least very easy to target.
In canon at least, the protagonists do nothing but dodge Avada Kedavras in a number of confrontation scenes. It has to be that way, because no Death Eater would be stupid enough to use anything but Avada Kedavra on a target they weren’t trying to take alive, and most characters had enough plot armour not to die in a random firefight.
Doesn’t AK use more magical energy than a simple stun ? Or just require longer to cast ? “Avada Kedavra” is longer to say than “Stupefy” or “Expelliarmus”, at least.
But it is unblockable and precludes the target being revived in the first case or recovering their wand/grabbing someone else’s/running away in the latter. In particular, HPMOR makes a very big deal out of any decent wizard being able to put up a dozen different shields, sometimes all but instantly, so unblockable spells are an extremely big deal.
In HPMOR, it also penetrates at least some thickness of cover, according to Moody, who also suggests that it does need significant mana. (How much mana? I’m getting the impression that Stupify is acceptable for Auror-level combat despite being castable by top first-years.)
It also cannot be countered. We don’t see much of countering in HPMOR, but we do see Susan try to counter an extremely powerful bully’s spell in the SPHEW.