my moral beliefs are consequentialist, and therefore actually formulated as “prevent the greatest possible number of murders” rather than “kill the fewest possible people personally”, so it’s not actually accurate to say I have to override moral beliefs to advocate removing sociopaths from society.
Of course. I agree that one death is preferable to many, no matter who or what does the killing. I am talking about the effects on yourself of endorsing murder, and possibly the less noble real reason you chose that solution.
Maybe you have observed what I am talking about: people having to steel themselves against their moral intuitions when they say or do certain things. You can see it in their faces; a grim, slightly sadistic hatred, I call it the “murder face”. I don’t think people do this because they are strict utilitarians. The murder face is not the reaction you would expect from a utilitarian reluctantly deciding that someone has to be executed.
I don’t think you said “sociopaths should all be killed or otherwise removed from society” for strictly utilitarian reasons either. I would expect a utilitarian to stress out and shit themselves for a few days (or as long as they had, up to years) trying to think of some other way to solve the problem before they would ever even think of murder.
The thing is, trades of one life for many are nearly always false dichotomies. There is some twisted way that humans are unjustifiably drawn to consider murder without even trying to consider alternatives. See the sequence on ethical injunctions.
Thru the known mechanisms of self-image, cached thoughts and so on, proposing murder as a solution just makes this problem worse in the future. You literally become less moral by saying that.
I would expect a utilitarian to stress out and shit themselves for a few days (or as long as they had, up to years) trying to think of some other way to solve the problem before they would ever even think of murder.
But I don’t have to solve the problem. Whatever I think of regarding sociopaths is pretty pointless, since I won’t have the chance to do it anyway, and even if I decided I really did think that was definitely the best course of action (which I’m not certain of; note that I’ve always qualified it with “or otherwise removed from society”, which could include all sorts of other possibilities) after considering all the other possibilities, I doubt that I personally would be able to do it anyway, and if I did I would go to jail and I don’t want that either. So for me to say it is as easy as the trolley problem (am I the only person for whom the trolley problem is easy?).
The thing is, trades of one life for many are nearly always false dichotomies. There is some twisted way that humans are unjustifiably drawn to consider murder without even trying to consider alternatives. See the sequence on ethical injunctions.
Thank you. If I’m ever in a position where killing someone is a course of action that’s even on my radar as something to consider, I’ll bear that in mind.
Thru the known mechanisms of self-image, cached thoughts and so on, proposing murder as a solution just makes this problem worse in the future. You literally become less moral by saying that.
Thank you for pointing that out. Just for the record, not killing people is one of my terminal values, and if I’m ever in a position to deal personally with the sociopath problem, I’ll be considering the other possibilities first.
Of course. I agree that one death is preferable to many, no matter who or what does the killing. I am talking about the effects on yourself of endorsing murder, and possibly the less noble real reason you chose that solution.
Maybe you have observed what I am talking about: people having to steel themselves against their moral intuitions when they say or do certain things. You can see it in their faces; a grim, slightly sadistic hatred, I call it the “murder face”. I don’t think people do this because they are strict utilitarians. The murder face is not the reaction you would expect from a utilitarian reluctantly deciding that someone has to be executed.
I don’t think you said “sociopaths should all be killed or otherwise removed from society” for strictly utilitarian reasons either. I would expect a utilitarian to stress out and shit themselves for a few days (or as long as they had, up to years) trying to think of some other way to solve the problem before they would ever even think of murder.
The thing is, trades of one life for many are nearly always false dichotomies. There is some twisted way that humans are unjustifiably drawn to consider murder without even trying to consider alternatives. See the sequence on ethical injunctions.
Thru the known mechanisms of self-image, cached thoughts and so on, proposing murder as a solution just makes this problem worse in the future. You literally become less moral by saying that.
But I don’t have to solve the problem. Whatever I think of regarding sociopaths is pretty pointless, since I won’t have the chance to do it anyway, and even if I decided I really did think that was definitely the best course of action (which I’m not certain of; note that I’ve always qualified it with “or otherwise removed from society”, which could include all sorts of other possibilities) after considering all the other possibilities, I doubt that I personally would be able to do it anyway, and if I did I would go to jail and I don’t want that either. So for me to say it is as easy as the trolley problem (am I the only person for whom the trolley problem is easy?).
Thank you. If I’m ever in a position where killing someone is a course of action that’s even on my radar as something to consider, I’ll bear that in mind.
Thank you for pointing that out. Just for the record, not killing people is one of my terminal values, and if I’m ever in a position to deal personally with the sociopath problem, I’ll be considering the other possibilities first.