Voted up, but I think abortion shouldn’t be legal once the fetus is old enough to have brain activity other than for medical reasons (life of the mother), and I’m an unrepentant speciesist.
As I recall (I haven’t gone to check), fetuses have “brain activity” about the same time they have a beating heart… ie about one week after conception. The brain activity regulates the heartbeat.
The problem with your definition is that it’s very vague—it doesn’t carve reality at the joints.
I myself prefer the “viability” test. If a foetus is removed form the mother.… and survives on it’s own (yes, with life support) then it is “viable” and gets to live. If it’s too undeveloped to live… then it doesn’t. This stage is actually not very far prior to birth—somewhere around 34-36 weeks (out of 40) (again as I recall without having to look it up).
This is very similar to (but gives just a bit more wiggle room) to the “birth” line… ie it disentangles the needs of the mother from the needs of the child, and can be epitomised by the “which would you choose to save” test.
If you had to choose between the life of the mother or the life of the child: if the child is not viable without the mother—then there is no choice necessary: you choose the mother, because choosing the child will result in them both dying. But if the child is viable—then you actually have to choose between them as individual people.
This stage is actually not very far prior to birth—somewhere around 34-36 weeks (out of 40) (again as I recall without having to look it up).
Actually a good bit earlier than that. Like 24, 25 weeks I think is the age where you get 50% survival (with intensive medical care, but you seem to say that’s ok).
Ok… then I should clarify. If the mother has 100% chance to live, but the foetus has only 50% chance to live… and only on seriously intensive care… I do not consider that an equal chance to live.
I use the 34-36 week limit because women are encouraged to continue to 34-36 weeks if at all possible (based on what my mother tells me—who is an experienced midwife).
I guess the 34-36 weeks cutoff is, for me, a reasonable chance at living on just minimal life support. ie the mother and the child have a roughly equal chance of survival… thus it becomes a choice between them where external factors of who they are (or potentially could be) are the main issue—rather than simply based upon survival probability.
So, as technology improves and artificial substitutes become viable progressively earlier in the developmental process, you’ll eventually be advocating adoption as an alternative to the morning-after pill?
If people are willing to pay for the cost of those artificial substitutes—then I would have no problem with it. If there are sufficient people wanting to adopt, too.
There is still a step between “being fine with it” and “advocating for”—that’s turning a “could” into a “should” and you have not given any evidence why this should become a “should”
Right now I’d still not see a benefit for advocating for a child to be placed onto this kind of life-support if the parents do not want it. If the adoptive parents do, then no problems.
The issue with what FAWS is proposing is that “brain activity” is vague int he extreme. Ants have brain activity...
Voted up, but I think abortion shouldn’t be legal once the fetus is old enough to have brain activity other than for medical reasons (life of the mother), and I’m an unrepentant speciesist.
As I recall (I haven’t gone to check), fetuses have “brain activity” about the same time they have a beating heart… ie about one week after conception. The brain activity regulates the heartbeat.
The problem with your definition is that it’s very vague—it doesn’t carve reality at the joints.
I myself prefer the “viability” test. If a foetus is removed form the mother.… and survives on it’s own (yes, with life support) then it is “viable” and gets to live. If it’s too undeveloped to live… then it doesn’t. This stage is actually not very far prior to birth—somewhere around 34-36 weeks (out of 40) (again as I recall without having to look it up).
This is very similar to (but gives just a bit more wiggle room) to the “birth” line… ie it disentangles the needs of the mother from the needs of the child, and can be epitomised by the “which would you choose to save” test.
If you had to choose between the life of the mother or the life of the child: if the child is not viable without the mother—then there is no choice necessary: you choose the mother, because choosing the child will result in them both dying. But if the child is viable—then you actually have to choose between them as individual people.
Actually a good bit earlier than that. Like 24, 25 weeks I think is the age where you get 50% survival (with intensive medical care, but you seem to say that’s ok).
Ok… then I should clarify. If the mother has 100% chance to live, but the foetus has only 50% chance to live… and only on seriously intensive care… I do not consider that an equal chance to live.
I use the 34-36 week limit because women are encouraged to continue to 34-36 weeks if at all possible (based on what my mother tells me—who is an experienced midwife).
I guess the 34-36 weeks cutoff is, for me, a reasonable chance at living on just minimal life support. ie the mother and the child have a roughly equal chance of survival… thus it becomes a choice between them where external factors of who they are (or potentially could be) are the main issue—rather than simply based upon survival probability.
So, as technology improves and artificial substitutes become viable progressively earlier in the developmental process, you’ll eventually be advocating adoption as an alternative to the morning-after pill?
If people are willing to pay for the cost of those artificial substitutes—then I would have no problem with it. If there are sufficient people wanting to adopt, too.
There is still a step between “being fine with it” and “advocating for”—that’s turning a “could” into a “should” and you have not given any evidence why this should become a “should”
Right now I’d still not see a benefit for advocating for a child to be placed onto this kind of life-support if the parents do not want it. If the adoptive parents do, then no problems.
The issue with what FAWS is proposing is that “brain activity” is vague int he extreme. Ants have brain activity...