I say that LW sometimes contributes to this, not that it causes it; it doesn’t have that effect on everyone. You probably need previous psychological issues, such as a pre-existing level of depression or generally low self-confidence, for this to happen.
Yes, I think I agree with your view on this. (I’d add a caveat that I suspect it’s not quite depression that does it, but something else, which I’m not sure I can name accurately enough to be useful… I will say this: I was severely depressed around the time I came across LessWrong—and let me tell you, LW rationality definitely did not have this effect you describe on me… Anecdotal observation of others, since then, has confirmed my impression. )
The average smart person reading the news has probably figured this out too … LW rationality doesn’t hurt me in this case, but it doesn’t particularly benefit me
I think you might be—from your LW-rationality-influenced vantage point—underestimating how prevalent various cognitive distortions (or, let’s just say it in plain language: stupidity and wrongheadedness) are in even “average smart people”.
Much of the best of what LW has to offer has always been (as one old post here put it) “rationality as non-self-destruction”. The point isn’t necessarily that you’re rational, and therefore, you win; the point is that by default, you lose, in various stupid and avoidable ways; LW-style rationality helps you not do that.
Now, that might not get you all the way to “winning”. You do still need stuff like “if there aren’t any good options, just take the least bad one and go for it, or at any rate do something instead of just sitting around”, which are, to a large degree, common-sense rules (which, while they would certainly be included in any total, idealized version of “rationality principles”, are by no means unique to LessWrong). But without LessWrong, it’s entirely possible that you’d just fail in some dumb way.
My personal experience is that I know a lot of smart people, and what I observe is that intelligence is no barrier to irrationality and nonsensical beliefs/actions. My impression is that there is a correlation, among the smart people I know, between how consistently they can avoid this sort of thing, and how much exposure they’ve had to LessWrong-style rationality (even if secondhand), or similar ideas.
I’d add a caveat that I suspect it’s not quite depression that does it, but something else, which I’m not sure I can name accurately enough to be useful…
This sounds right to me. Something in the rough space of depression, but not quite the same thing.
I think you might be—from your LW-rationality-influenced vantage point—underestimating how prevalent various cognitive distortions (or, let’s just say it in plain language: stupidity and wrongheadedness) are in even “average smart people”.
That’s certainly possible, and I definitely agree that there are many kinds of wrongheadedness that are common in smart people but seem to be much less common among LW readers.
That said, my impression of “average smart people” mostly comes from the people I’ve met at university, hobbies, and the like. I don’t live in the Bay or near any of the rationalist hubs. So most of the folks I interact with, and am thinking about, aren’t active LW readers (though they might have run across the occasional LW article). It’s certainly possible that I’m falling victim to some kind of selection bias in my impression of the average smart person, but I doubt that being too influenced by LW rationality is the filter in question.
Much of the best of what LW has to offer has always been (as one old post here put it) “rationality as non-self-destruction”. The point isn’t necessarily that you’re rational, and therefore, you win; the point is that by default, you lose, in various stupid and avoidable ways; LW-style rationality helps you not do that.
Hmm. “Rationalists might not win, but at least they don’t lose just because they’re shooting themselves in the foot.” I like that, and think that I agree.
Yes, I think I agree with your view on this. (I’d add a caveat that I suspect it’s not quite depression that does it, but something else, which I’m not sure I can name accurately enough to be useful… I will say this: I was severely depressed around the time I came across LessWrong—and let me tell you, LW rationality definitely did not have this effect you describe on me… Anecdotal observation of others, since then, has confirmed my impression. )
I think you might be—from your LW-rationality-influenced vantage point—underestimating how prevalent various cognitive distortions (or, let’s just say it in plain language: stupidity and wrongheadedness) are in even “average smart people”.
Much of the best of what LW has to offer has always been (as one old post here put it) “rationality as non-self-destruction”. The point isn’t necessarily that you’re rational, and therefore, you win; the point is that by default, you lose, in various stupid and avoidable ways; LW-style rationality helps you not do that.
Now, that might not get you all the way to “winning”. You do still need stuff like “if there aren’t any good options, just take the least bad one and go for it, or at any rate do something instead of just sitting around”, which are, to a large degree, common-sense rules (which, while they would certainly be included in any total, idealized version of “rationality principles”, are by no means unique to LessWrong). But without LessWrong, it’s entirely possible that you’d just fail in some dumb way.
My personal experience is that I know a lot of smart people, and what I observe is that intelligence is no barrier to irrationality and nonsensical beliefs/actions. My impression is that there is a correlation, among the smart people I know, between how consistently they can avoid this sort of thing, and how much exposure they’ve had to LessWrong-style rationality (even if secondhand), or similar ideas.
This sounds right to me. Something in the rough space of depression, but not quite the same thing.
That’s certainly possible, and I definitely agree that there are many kinds of wrongheadedness that are common in smart people but seem to be much less common among LW readers.
That said, my impression of “average smart people” mostly comes from the people I’ve met at university, hobbies, and the like. I don’t live in the Bay or near any of the rationalist hubs. So most of the folks I interact with, and am thinking about, aren’t active LW readers (though they might have run across the occasional LW article). It’s certainly possible that I’m falling victim to some kind of selection bias in my impression of the average smart person, but I doubt that being too influenced by LW rationality is the filter in question.
Hmm. “Rationalists might not win, but at least they don’t lose just because they’re shooting themselves in the foot.” I like that, and think that I agree.