Maybe Robin’s post Doubting My Far Mind will be relevant to you. He makes the point that applying your brain to the question “why” doesn’t seem to be very productive:
I’ve also noticed that among smart folks, the most successful keep their smarts on a short leash. They use their smarts to make the sale, win the case, pass the test, get published, etc., but they don’t use much smarts to consider whether they really want to make the sale, win the case, etc. Oh sure they might express some angst at a Saturday dinner, but come Monday they are back on the job.
In contrast, on average smart folks gain far less success when they seriously apply their smarts to big pictures, reconsidering what they want, what we really know, how the world is organized, what they can do to make the world a better place, and so on. They go off in a thousand directions, and while some might break new ground, on average such smart folk gain much less personal success, and may well do less to help the world.
Thanks for the link. I admit that I struggle to understand Hanson’s writing (and Yudkowsky is impenetrable). IMO, the two paragraphs you cite, in the context of the post, actually means that smart people can achieve local, well-defined goals, but they rarely consider “why” they are doing it. Maybe they should. In the 2nd paragraph, he says smart people aren’t successful at thinking about abstract, long-term questions. Also, those people tend not to achieve personal success (probably ’cause they waste time thinking big thoughts rather than making the sale).
Towards the end, Hanson says he pursues conventional success when he’s insecure about his status. And when he’s feeling secure he does what he wants, but less of the big abstract thinking because he doesn’t trust it anymore. Hanson got tenure because he’s smart enough to do the conventional things required for success. WHY did Hanson pursue tenure? Because he was seeking status.
In my case, I’ve beaten my status seeking impulse to a bloody pulp, though it twitches occasionally. Once my material needs are met, I’m pretty much done. Isn’t status seeking irrational? It’s imposed on us by social expectations. I’d hope that a group dedicated to reason could push past this vanity and aim for goals they consider “more rational”.
There’s a widely held opinion here that terminal goals/values can’t be rational or irrational. One reason for this is that you probably can’t figure out any “eternal” values from first principles. The closest a human being can come to an “objective value system” is to adopt evolution’s values as your own and strive to have as many kids as possible; but the question remains why you should play the good soldier for your genes, and not for some other master? (After all, there’s no “you gene” and in a few generations your kids will be just like everybody else’s...)
So the answer is, it’s up to you. There’s no light in the sky to give you goals in life; their only source is the little voice inside your head. If you want to seek status, fine. If you don’t, that’s okay too. If you want to devote your life to altruism instead, by all means do that! Let a thousand flowers bloom.
Me, I like to pursue ambitions and status. Maybe rationality can help me with that, maybe it can’t. But if rationality tells me that it’s “irrational” for me to want what I want, why should I listen? Won’t I achieve my goals better by not listening?
Maybe Robin’s post Doubting My Far Mind will be relevant to you. He makes the point that applying your brain to the question “why” doesn’t seem to be very productive:
Thanks for the link. I admit that I struggle to understand Hanson’s writing (and Yudkowsky is impenetrable). IMO, the two paragraphs you cite, in the context of the post, actually means that smart people can achieve local, well-defined goals, but they rarely consider “why” they are doing it. Maybe they should. In the 2nd paragraph, he says smart people aren’t successful at thinking about abstract, long-term questions. Also, those people tend not to achieve personal success (probably ’cause they waste time thinking big thoughts rather than making the sale).
Towards the end, Hanson says he pursues conventional success when he’s insecure about his status. And when he’s feeling secure he does what he wants, but less of the big abstract thinking because he doesn’t trust it anymore. Hanson got tenure because he’s smart enough to do the conventional things required for success. WHY did Hanson pursue tenure? Because he was seeking status.
In my case, I’ve beaten my status seeking impulse to a bloody pulp, though it twitches occasionally. Once my material needs are met, I’m pretty much done. Isn’t status seeking irrational? It’s imposed on us by social expectations. I’d hope that a group dedicated to reason could push past this vanity and aim for goals they consider “more rational”.
There’s a widely held opinion here that terminal goals/values can’t be rational or irrational. One reason for this is that you probably can’t figure out any “eternal” values from first principles. The closest a human being can come to an “objective value system” is to adopt evolution’s values as your own and strive to have as many kids as possible; but the question remains why you should play the good soldier for your genes, and not for some other master? (After all, there’s no “you gene” and in a few generations your kids will be just like everybody else’s...)
So the answer is, it’s up to you. There’s no light in the sky to give you goals in life; their only source is the little voice inside your head. If you want to seek status, fine. If you don’t, that’s okay too. If you want to devote your life to altruism instead, by all means do that! Let a thousand flowers bloom.
Me, I like to pursue ambitions and status. Maybe rationality can help me with that, maybe it can’t. But if rationality tells me that it’s “irrational” for me to want what I want, why should I listen? Won’t I achieve my goals better by not listening?