I didn’t link to other posts on Lesswrong about meditation in the OP for three reasons. First, most of them aren’t related in especially useful ways (but perhaps I’m wrong; I did skim parts). Second, some of them make claims and express perspectives I’d feel a strong need to respond to if I sent people over to them, and I wanted to stick as closely as possible to my main point rather than talking a lot about meditation in general, which I could do for a very, very long time once I got going. Finally, I didn’t want to prime people who hadn’t already read them. I attempted to divorce meditation from many of its stereotypes so I could make points that didn’t depend on the reader taking seriously whole memplexes deeply entangled with religious doctrine.
But now that all of that is out of the way, if you’re interested in how this relates to past LW meditation posts, you can find the first of a three part series on meditation here, a discussion thread on minfulness in particular here, a post on theory here, a solid description of Vipassana here plus a followup here, a discussion of a study on mindfulness here, and something I haven’t yet checked out about meditation for brainstorming here.
I’m quite new to the site and expect I’ve left out some interesting posts, so please leave a comment if you know of more.
I recently stumbled across Shinzen Young’s stuff on meditation (scroll to the bottom of this page; you can also search his site; example) and was pleased to discover that it seemed way more lucid, concrete, and sensible than anything I’d read on the topic previously. I’m curious what your take is, if any.
One thing I’ve wondered about meditation: it seems like most/all meditation resources invoke some notion of an authoritative “guru”, which reminds me of science in the medieval era where because Aristotle said something, it was assumed to be true (e.g. women have fewer teeth than men). I’m curious what it would look like if someone started exploring their brain in the same general sort of way that meditators do, but without being primed by specific meditation instructions, and keeping careful logs/observations of everything they tried (akin to performing actual scientific experiments rather than just trusting the “authorities”, who got their knowledge from other “authorities”, etc. until you get to someone living in the ancient era who actually came up with something original to do with one’s brain). Here’s a hasty list of ideas from me, rot13′d to prevent priming for others who want to brainstorm from scratch:
Vqrnf/dhrfgvbaf:
Qb ybgf bs 1-zvahgr zrqvgngvba rkcrevzragf, naq fcraq 30 frpbaqf erpbeqvat lbhe bofreingvbaf nsgre rnpu 1-zvahgr rkcrevzrag… jung’f gur cbvag va tbvat sbe ybatre guna n zvahgr?
Unir n gvzre gung orrcf rirel 10 frpbaqf gb erzvaq lbh gb ersbphf ba jungrire lbhe rkcrevzrag vf.
Vs lbh’er ernyyl gelvat gb qrirybc n arj jnl bs guvaxvat unovghnyyl, jbhyqa’g vg or orggre gb qb vg va gval yvggyr puhaxf guebhtubhg gur qnl naq gura tenqhnyyl rkcnaq gur ahzore naq fvmr bs gur puhaxf? R.t. qrirybc n unovg bs zrqvgngvat rirel gvzr lbh jrag gb gur onguebbz.
Jung jbhyq qryvorengr cenpgvpr sbe zrqvgngvba ybbx yvxr? Pna gur fxvyyf vaibyirq va zrqvgngvba or tenahenyvmrq yhxrcebt fglyr?
Gjb engvbanyrf V’ir urneq sbe jul zrqvgngvba vf vagrerfgvat arhebybtvpnyyl: vg vapernfrf cnenflzcngurgvp areibhf flfgrz npgvingvba naq erqhprf gur npgvivgl bs gur qrsnhyg argjbex. Ner gurfr begubtbany gb bar nabgure, v.r. pbhyq bar or gubhtugyrffyl nebhfrq, be erynkrq va zbfg culfvbybtvpny erfcrpgf, ohg jvgu enpvat gubhtugf? Jung bgure arhebybtvpny engvbanyrf zvtug rkvfg?
POG frrzf hfrshy va bgure nernf bs yvsr; jul abg ercrngrqyl fhoibpnyvmr vafgehpgvbaf gb barfrys juvyr zrqvgngvat? R.t. fnl gur jbeq “pnyz” bire naq bire ntnva gb barfrys. Vs nqiregvfref pna trg lbh gb ohl gurve cebqhpg whfg ol ercrngrq rkcbfher gb gur fnzr fybtna, frrzf yvxr lbh bhtug gb or noyr gb qb fbzrguvat fvzvyne jvgu zrqvgngvba, be nal pbtavgvir punatr lbh jnagrq gb znxr ernyyl.
Jul fubhyqa’g fgnaqneq pynffvpny pbaqvgvbavat nccyl gb zrqvgngvba? Sbe rknzcyr, V zrqvgngrq va bar gvzr naq pbagrkg naq graqrq gb trg ernyyl tbbq erfhygf, naq zrqvgngrq va nabgure gvzr naq pbagrkg naq graqrq gb trg ernyyl onq erfhygf. Znlor sbe rnpu fbeg bs zrqvgngvba rkrepvfr gung lbh svaq hfrshy, lbh fubhyq gel gb znxr vg n qvfgvapg xvaq bs cenpgvpr? Sbe rknzcyr, jrne tybirf naq pybfr lbhe rlrf sbe bar xvaq bs zrqvgngvba, naq chg ba terra-gvagrq yrafrf naq xrrc lbhe rlrf bcra sbe fbzr bgure xvaq.
“Crbcyr bsgra gnxr hc zrqvgngvba orpnhfr gurl jnag gb npuvrir be tnva fbzrguvat; gur cnenqbk va gur cenpgvpr vf gung gur orfg jnl gb trg “gurer” gb or shyyl cerfrag “urer.”” BX… naq n ebbzzngr bs zvaq onfvpnyyl gbyq zr ur jnf n ybg zber qevira naq uneq-jbexvat orsber ur fgnegrq zrqvgngvat n gba. Jung vs V jnag gb cerfreir zl inyhrf?
Bsgra zrqvgngvba rkrepvfrf jvyy gryy lbh abg gb gel gb qb cnegvphyne guvatf jvgu lbhe oenva. Vg frrzf jbegu qvfgvathvfuvat orgjrra gur tbnyf lbh ner gelvat gb npuvrir naq gur zrgubqf lbh’er hfvat gb nggrzcg gb npuvrir gurz. Znlor anviryl nggrzcgvat gb npuvrir n tbny vf n onq jnl gb npghnyyl npuvrir vg, naq n zrnaf/raqf qvfgvapgvba pbhyq or hfrshy.
Gel gb pbzr hc jvgu n gnkbabzl bs gur fbeg bs gubhtugf lbh guvax, be bgure jnlf bs haqrefgnaqvat gurz (r.t. jurgure gurl fcnjarq bss n cerivbhf gubhtug be abg). Gura gel gb ynory gurz va erny-gvzr.
Pbzr hc jvgu n dhvpx jnl gb qb pbvasyvcf. Rirel gvzr lbh unir n gubhtug, syvc n pbva. Vs vg’f urnqf, gel gb yrg gur gubhtug cnff. Vs vg’f gnvyf, tb nurnq naq sbyybj vg hc. Nygreangviryl, gel gb qrpvqr ubj hfrshy n gubhtug vf evtug nf lbh’er guvaxvat vg, naq ersvar lbhe vaghvgvba sbe ubj hfrshy gubhtugf ner sbe shegure rkcybengvba.
Frg n gvzre gung evatf crevbqvpnyyl. Jura vg qbrf, gel gb guvax bs n cnggrea va lbhe pbtavgvba bire gur cnfg zvahgr, naq jevgr vg qbja.
Gel gb znkvzvmr gur crepragntr bs lbhe oenva gung’f guvaxvat nobhg fbzr cnegvphyne guvat.
...which reminds me of science in the medieval era where because Aristotle said something, it was assumed to be true (e.g. women have fewer teeth than men).
Although the Problemata (which contains speculations about the teeth of humans and other animals) was indeed part of the Corpus Aristotelicum, it is very doubtful that Aristotle actually wrote it. In fact, many copies of it list the author as Pseudo-Aristotle.
Fair. But I do think the larger thesis, that learning from authorities is inferior to learning through experimentation and that we’ve been profitably trending from the first to the second over the course of human history, is true.
I didn’t link to other posts on Lesswrong about meditation in the OP for three reasons. First, most of them aren’t related in especially useful ways (but perhaps I’m wrong; I did skim parts). Second, some of them make claims and express perspectives I’d feel a strong need to respond to if I sent people over to them, and I wanted to stick as closely as possible to my main point rather than talking a lot about meditation in general, which I could do for a very, very long time once I got going. Finally, I didn’t want to prime people who hadn’t already read them. I attempted to divorce meditation from many of its stereotypes so I could make points that didn’t depend on the reader taking seriously whole memplexes deeply entangled with religious doctrine.
But now that all of that is out of the way, if you’re interested in how this relates to past LW meditation posts, you can find the first of a three part series on meditation here, a discussion thread on minfulness in particular here, a post on theory here, a solid description of Vipassana here plus a followup here, a discussion of a study on mindfulness here, and something I haven’t yet checked out about meditation for brainstorming here.
I’m quite new to the site and expect I’ve left out some interesting posts, so please leave a comment if you know of more.
I recently stumbled across Shinzen Young’s stuff on meditation (scroll to the bottom of this page; you can also search his site; example) and was pleased to discover that it seemed way more lucid, concrete, and sensible than anything I’d read on the topic previously. I’m curious what your take is, if any.
One thing I’ve wondered about meditation: it seems like most/all meditation resources invoke some notion of an authoritative “guru”, which reminds me of science in the medieval era where because Aristotle said something, it was assumed to be true (e.g. women have fewer teeth than men). I’m curious what it would look like if someone started exploring their brain in the same general sort of way that meditators do, but without being primed by specific meditation instructions, and keeping careful logs/observations of everything they tried (akin to performing actual scientific experiments rather than just trusting the “authorities”, who got their knowledge from other “authorities”, etc. until you get to someone living in the ancient era who actually came up with something original to do with one’s brain). Here’s a hasty list of ideas from me, rot13′d to prevent priming for others who want to brainstorm from scratch:
Vqrnf/dhrfgvbaf:
Qb ybgf bs 1-zvahgr zrqvgngvba rkcrevzragf, naq fcraq 30 frpbaqf erpbeqvat lbhe bofreingvbaf nsgre rnpu 1-zvahgr rkcrevzrag… jung’f gur cbvag va tbvat sbe ybatre guna n zvahgr?
Unir n gvzre gung orrcf rirel 10 frpbaqf gb erzvaq lbh gb ersbphf ba jungrire lbhe rkcrevzrag vf.
Vs lbh’er ernyyl gelvat gb qrirybc n arj jnl bs guvaxvat unovghnyyl, jbhyqa’g vg or orggre gb qb vg va gval yvggyr puhaxf guebhtubhg gur qnl naq gura tenqhnyyl rkcnaq gur ahzore naq fvmr bs gur puhaxf? R.t. qrirybc n unovg bs zrqvgngvat rirel gvzr lbh jrag gb gur onguebbz.
Jung jbhyq qryvorengr cenpgvpr sbe zrqvgngvba ybbx yvxr? Pna gur fxvyyf vaibyirq va zrqvgngvba or tenahenyvmrq yhxrcebt fglyr?
Gjb engvbanyrf V’ir urneq sbe jul zrqvgngvba vf vagrerfgvat arhebybtvpnyyl: vg vapernfrf cnenflzcngurgvp areibhf flfgrz npgvingvba naq erqhprf gur npgvivgl bs gur qrsnhyg argjbex. Ner gurfr begubtbany gb bar nabgure, v.r. pbhyq bar or gubhtugyrffyl nebhfrq, be erynkrq va zbfg culfvbybtvpny erfcrpgf, ohg jvgu enpvat gubhtugf? Jung bgure arhebybtvpny engvbanyrf zvtug rkvfg?
POG frrzf hfrshy va bgure nernf bs yvsr; jul abg ercrngrqyl fhoibpnyvmr vafgehpgvbaf gb barfrys juvyr zrqvgngvat? R.t. fnl gur jbeq “pnyz” bire naq bire ntnva gb barfrys. Vs nqiregvfref pna trg lbh gb ohl gurve cebqhpg whfg ol ercrngrq rkcbfher gb gur fnzr fybtna, frrzf yvxr lbh bhtug gb or noyr gb qb fbzrguvat fvzvyne jvgu zrqvgngvba, be nal pbtavgvir punatr lbh jnagrq gb znxr ernyyl.
Jul fubhyqa’g fgnaqneq pynffvpny pbaqvgvbavat nccyl gb zrqvgngvba? Sbe rknzcyr, V zrqvgngrq va bar gvzr naq pbagrkg naq graqrq gb trg ernyyl tbbq erfhygf, naq zrqvgngrq va nabgure gvzr naq pbagrkg naq graqrq gb trg ernyyl onq erfhygf. Znlor sbe rnpu fbeg bs zrqvgngvba rkrepvfr gung lbh svaq hfrshy, lbh fubhyq gel gb znxr vg n qvfgvapg xvaq bs cenpgvpr? Sbe rknzcyr, jrne tybirf naq pybfr lbhe rlrf sbe bar xvaq bs zrqvgngvba, naq chg ba terra-gvagrq yrafrf naq xrrc lbhe rlrf bcra sbe fbzr bgure xvaq.
“Crbcyr bsgra gnxr hc zrqvgngvba orpnhfr gurl jnag gb npuvrir be tnva fbzrguvat; gur cnenqbk va gur cenpgvpr vf gung gur orfg jnl gb trg “gurer” gb or shyyl cerfrag “urer.”” BX… naq n ebbzzngr bs zvaq onfvpnyyl gbyq zr ur jnf n ybg zber qevira naq uneq-jbexvat orsber ur fgnegrq zrqvgngvat n gba. Jung vs V jnag gb cerfreir zl inyhrf?
Bsgra zrqvgngvba rkrepvfrf jvyy gryy lbh abg gb gel gb qb cnegvphyne guvatf jvgu lbhe oenva. Vg frrzf jbegu qvfgvathvfuvat orgjrra gur tbnyf lbh ner gelvat gb npuvrir naq gur zrgubqf lbh’er hfvat gb nggrzcg gb npuvrir gurz. Znlor anviryl nggrzcgvat gb npuvrir n tbny vf n onq jnl gb npghnyyl npuvrir vg, naq n zrnaf/raqf qvfgvapgvba pbhyq or hfrshy.
Fcrpvsvp rkrepvfr vqrnf (abg arprffnevyl gung bevtvany)
Gel gb pbzr hc jvgu n gnkbabzl bs gur fbeg bs gubhtugf lbh guvax, be bgure jnlf bs haqrefgnaqvat gurz (r.t. jurgure gurl fcnjarq bss n cerivbhf gubhtug be abg). Gura gel gb ynory gurz va erny-gvzr.
Pbzr hc jvgu n dhvpx jnl gb qb pbvasyvcf. Rirel gvzr lbh unir n gubhtug, syvc n pbva. Vs vg’f urnqf, gel gb yrg gur gubhtug cnff. Vs vg’f gnvyf, tb nurnq naq sbyybj vg hc. Nygreangviryl, gel gb qrpvqr ubj hfrshy n gubhtug vf evtug nf lbh’er guvaxvat vg, naq ersvar lbhe vaghvgvba sbe ubj hfrshy gubhtugf ner sbe shegure rkcybengvba.
Frg n gvzre gung evatf crevbqvpnyyl. Jura vg qbrf, gel gb guvax bs n cnggrea va lbhe pbtavgvba bire gur cnfg zvahgr, naq jevgr vg qbja.
Gel gb znkvzvmr gur crepragntr bs lbhe oenva gung’f guvaxvat nobhg fbzr cnegvphyne guvat.
Gel gb guvax nf abezny, ohg znvagnva rzbgvbany qvfgnapr sebz lbhe gubhtugf, naq bayl pubbfr gb srry gubfr rzbgvbaf gung frrz cyrnfnag be hfrshy.
Although the Problemata (which contains speculations about the teeth of humans and other animals) was indeed part of the Corpus Aristotelicum, it is very doubtful that Aristotle actually wrote it. In fact, many copies of it list the author as Pseudo-Aristotle.
Fair. But I do think the larger thesis, that learning from authorities is inferior to learning through experimentation and that we’ve been profitably trending from the first to the second over the course of human history, is true.