On what grounds do you believe that the person who wrote that comment is the same person who is reading this response?
By examining the history of interactions which occured between the two states.
How confident are you that those things are more reliable indicators of shared identity than thought and behavior and memory?
Because it is very easy to construct thought experiments which show that thought, behavior, and memory are not sufficient for making a determination. For example, imagine a non-destructive sci-fi teleporter. The version of you I’m talking to right now walks into the machine, sees some flashing lights, and then walks out. Some time later another Dave out of a similar machine on Mars. Now step back a moment in time. Before walking into the machine, what experience do you expect to have after: (1) walking back out or (2) waking up on Mars?
By examining the history of interactions which occured between the two states.
Well, yes, but what are you looking for when you do the examination?
That is, OK, you examine the history, and you think “Well, I observe X, and I don’t observe Y, and therefore I conclude identity was preserved.” What I’m trying to figure out is what X and Y are.
Before walking into the machine, what experience do you expect to have after: (1) walking back out or (2) waking up on Mars?
With 50% probability, I expect to walk back out, and with 50% probability I expect to wake up on mars. Both copies will feel like and believe that they are the original, and both copies will believe they are the ‘original’.
But you expect one or the other, right? In other words, you don’t expect to experience both futures, correct?
Now what if the replicator on Mars gets stuck, and starts continuously outputting Dentins. What is your probability of staying on Earth now?
Further, doesn’t it seem odd that you are assigning any probability that after a non-invasive scan, and while your brain and body continues to operate just fine on Earth, you suddenly find yourself on Mars, and someone else takes over your life on Earth?
What is the mechanism by which you expect your subjective experience to be transferred from Earth to Mars?
Not Dentin, but since I gave the same answer above I figured I’d weigh in here.
you expect one or the other, right? In other words, you don’t expect to experience both futures, correct?
I expect to experience both futures, but not simultaneously.
Somewhat similarly, if you show me a Necker cube, do I expect to see a cube whose front face points down and to the left? Or a cube whose front face points up and to the right? Well, I expect to see both. But I don’t expect to see both at once… I’m not capable of that.
(Of course, the two situations are not the same. I can switch between views of a Necker cube, whereas after the duplication there are two mes each tied to their own body.)
what if the replicator on Mars gets stuck [..] What is your probability of staying on Earth now?
I will stay on Earth, with a probability that doesn’t change. I will also appear repeatedly on Mars.
doesn’t it seem odd that you are assigning any probability that after a non-invasive scan, and while your brain and body continues to operate just fine on Earth, you suddenly find yourself on Mars,
Well, sure, in the real world it seems very odd to take this possibility seriously. And, indeed, it never seems to happen, so I don’t take it seriously… I don’t in fact expect to wake up on Mars.
But in the hypothetical you’ve constructed, it doesn’t seem odd at all… that’s what a nondestructive teleporter does.
and someone else takes over your life on Earth?
(shrug) In ten minutes, someone will take over my life on Earth. They will resemble me extremely closely, though there will be some small differences. I, as I am now, will no longer exist. This is the normal, ordinary course of events; it has always been like this.
I’m comfortable describing that person as me, and I’m comfortable describing the person I was ten minutes ago as me, so I’m comfortable saying that I continue to exist throughout that 20-minute period. I expect me in 10 minutes to be comfortable describing me as him.
If in the course of those ten minutes, I am nondestructively teleported to Mars, someone will still take over my life on Earth. Someone else, also very similar but not identical, will take over my life on Mars. I’m comfortable describing all of us as me. I expect both of me in 10 minutes to be comfortable describing me as them.
That certainly seems odd, but again, what’s odd about it is the nondestructively teleported to Mars part, which the thought experiment presupposes.
What is the mechanism by which you expect your subjective experience to be transferred from Earth to Mars?
It will travel along with my body, via whatever mechanism allows that to be transferred. (Much as my subjective experience travels along with my body when I drive a car or fly cross-country.)
No, I would never expect to simultaneously experience being on both Mars and Earth. If you find anyone who believes that, they are severely confused, or are trolling you.
If I know the replicator will get stuck and output 99 dentins on Mars, I would only expect a 1% chance of waking up on earth. If I’m told that it will only output one copy, I would expect a 50% chance of waking up on earth, only to find out later that the actual probability was 1%. The map is not the territory.
Further, doesn’t it seem odd that you are assigning any probability that after a non-invasive scan, and while your brain and body continues to operate just fine on Earth, you suddenly find yourself on Mars, and someone else takes over your life on Earth?
Not at all. In fact, it seems odd to me that anyone would be surprised to end up on Mars.
What is the mechanism by which you expect your subjective experience to be transferred from Earth to Mars?
Because conciousness is how information processing feels from the inside, and ‘information processing’ has no intrinsic requirement that the substrate or cycle times be continuous.
If I pause a playing wave file, copy the remainder to another machine, and start playing it out, it still plays music. It doesn’t matter that the machine is different, that the decoder software is different, that the audio transducers are different—the music is still there.
Another, closer analogy is that of the common VM: it is possible to stop a VPS (virtual private server), including operating system, virtual disk, and all running programs, take a snapshot, copy it entirely to another machine halfway around the planet, and restart it on that other machine as though there were no interruption in processing. The VPS may not even know that anything has happened, other than suddenly its clock is wrong compared to external sources. The fact that it spent half an hour ‘suspended’ doesn’t affect its ability to process information one whit.
By examining the history of interactions which occured between the two states.
Because it is very easy to construct thought experiments which show that thought, behavior, and memory are not sufficient for making a determination. For example, imagine a non-destructive sci-fi teleporter. The version of you I’m talking to right now walks into the machine, sees some flashing lights, and then walks out. Some time later another Dave out of a similar machine on Mars. Now step back a moment in time. Before walking into the machine, what experience do you expect to have after: (1) walking back out or (2) waking up on Mars?
Well, yes, but what are you looking for when you do the examination?
That is, OK, you examine the history, and you think “Well, I observe X, and I don’t observe Y, and therefore I conclude identity was preserved.” What I’m trying to figure out is what X and Y are.
Both.
With 50% probability, I expect to walk back out, and with 50% probability I expect to wake up on mars. Both copies will feel like and believe that they are the original, and both copies will believe they are the ‘original’.
But you expect one or the other, right? In other words, you don’t expect to experience both futures, correct?
Now what if the replicator on Mars gets stuck, and starts continuously outputting Dentins. What is your probability of staying on Earth now?
Further, doesn’t it seem odd that you are assigning any probability that after a non-invasive scan, and while your brain and body continues to operate just fine on Earth, you suddenly find yourself on Mars, and someone else takes over your life on Earth?
What is the mechanism by which you expect your subjective experience to be transferred from Earth to Mars?
Not Dentin, but since I gave the same answer above I figured I’d weigh in here.
I expect to experience both futures, but not simultaneously.
Somewhat similarly, if you show me a Necker cube, do I expect to see a cube whose front face points down and to the left? Or a cube whose front face points up and to the right? Well, I expect to see both. But I don’t expect to see both at once… I’m not capable of that.
(Of course, the two situations are not the same. I can switch between views of a Necker cube, whereas after the duplication there are two mes each tied to their own body.)
I will stay on Earth, with a probability that doesn’t change.
I will also appear repeatedly on Mars.
Well, sure, in the real world it seems very odd to take this possibility seriously. And, indeed, it never seems to happen, so I don’t take it seriously… I don’t in fact expect to wake up on Mars.
But in the hypothetical you’ve constructed, it doesn’t seem odd at all… that’s what a nondestructive teleporter does.
(shrug) In ten minutes, someone will take over my life on Earth. They will resemble me extremely closely, though there will be some small differences. I, as I am now, will no longer exist. This is the normal, ordinary course of events; it has always been like this.
I’m comfortable describing that person as me, and I’m comfortable describing the person I was ten minutes ago as me, so I’m comfortable saying that I continue to exist throughout that 20-minute period. I expect me in 10 minutes to be comfortable describing me as him.
If in the course of those ten minutes, I am nondestructively teleported to Mars, someone will still take over my life on Earth. Someone else, also very similar but not identical, will take over my life on Mars. I’m comfortable describing all of us as me. I expect both of me in 10 minutes to be comfortable describing me as them.
That certainly seems odd, but again, what’s odd about it is the nondestructively teleported to Mars part, which the thought experiment presupposes.
It will travel along with my body, via whatever mechanism allows that to be transferred. (Much as my subjective experience travels along with my body when I drive a car or fly cross-country.)
It would be odd if it did anything else.
No, I would never expect to simultaneously experience being on both Mars and Earth. If you find anyone who believes that, they are severely confused, or are trolling you.
If I know the replicator will get stuck and output 99 dentins on Mars, I would only expect a 1% chance of waking up on earth. If I’m told that it will only output one copy, I would expect a 50% chance of waking up on earth, only to find out later that the actual probability was 1%. The map is not the territory.
Not at all. In fact, it seems odd to me that anyone would be surprised to end up on Mars.
Because conciousness is how information processing feels from the inside, and ‘information processing’ has no intrinsic requirement that the substrate or cycle times be continuous.
If I pause a playing wave file, copy the remainder to another machine, and start playing it out, it still plays music. It doesn’t matter that the machine is different, that the decoder software is different, that the audio transducers are different—the music is still there.
Another, closer analogy is that of the common VM: it is possible to stop a VPS (virtual private server), including operating system, virtual disk, and all running programs, take a snapshot, copy it entirely to another machine halfway around the planet, and restart it on that other machine as though there were no interruption in processing. The VPS may not even know that anything has happened, other than suddenly its clock is wrong compared to external sources. The fact that it spent half an hour ‘suspended’ doesn’t affect its ability to process information one whit.