While I understand that some people may feel this way, I very much hope that this sentiment is rare. The presence of young children at the event only adds to the sense of belonging to a community, which is an important part of what we are trying to “borrow” from religions.
I like having a community that supports children, but at the same time let’s not close our eyes to the truth. If there actually is a child screaming throughout Solstice and running around rampant it will, in fact, ruin the experience. I don’t know what the Bay Solstice was like, so I don’t know if this was really the case or if it’s an exaggeration.
From what I’ve seen, it’s not rare at all. I count… myself and at least 7 other people who’ve expressed the sentiment in private across both this year and last year (it happened last year too). It is, however, something that is very difficult for people to speak up about. I think what’s going on is that different people care about differing portious of the solstice (community, message, aesthetics, etc) to surprisingly differing degrees, may have sensory sensitivites or difficulty with multiple audio input streams, and may or may not find children positive to be around in principle. I think this community has far more people for whom noisy children destroy the experience than the base rate of other communities.
From what I’ve observed, the degree to which children ruin events for certain people is almost completely lost on many others. It’s difficult to speak up largely because of sentiments like yours, which make it feel like people will think that I’m going against the idea of the community. For me, and I don’t think I’m exceptionally sensitive, I think it removes between a third and half of the value of going to the event.
I typically don’t mind children being present at events (if taken outside if they begin screaming) and don’t have particularly strong sensory issues. I imagine that people with either of those would have had an even worse time than I did.
When I still went to church, there was sometimes a “children’s service” that went in parallel to the church service. Young kids who couldn’t sit still and their parents were strongly encouraged to go to that one instead. It was a small room far enough away, with the pastor’s wife, and I presume they were singing and nursing and changing diapers.
When a little child attended the Leipzig Solstice two years ago, that’s basically what we did. She and her parents had their own room for themselves where they could go when she became tired and fussy. That room wasn’t really far enough away, though. But she was mostly quite happy with the Solstice and made us feel awesome for having her there. So I say children, when properly managed, are a clear boon to a Solstice.
But she was mostly quite happy with the Solstice and made us feel awesome for having her there. So I say children, when properly managed, are a clear boon to a Solstice.
I agree that having the child was a valuable participant at the Leipzig solstice.
I think it’s also about respecting the child. Keeping a child who doesn’t enjoy the event to the extend that the child cries the whole time at the event isn’t respecting the agency of the child.
While I understand that some people may feel this way, I very much hope that this sentiment is rare.
There are two sentiments here, that I think should both be common:
Children are welcome at community gatherings.
There are times when children should be quiet or absent.
Raemon’s solution is a good one here, as is a norm of parents removing children when they get especially loud. (At this event that may have been less practical than normal, given that it was about 40°F outside, but may have been solved by having a designated children’s room or something.)
I agree with you that having community events be family events is a very good idea and am also fully against the idea of banning children. Nevertheless, there is a big difference between some children making some noise during an event and a single child consistently talking and throwing fits interrupting half of the entire presentation while their parents don’t remove from hearing range.
While I understand that some people may feel this way, I very much hope that this sentiment is rare. The presence of young children at the event only adds to the sense of belonging to a community, which is an important part of what we are trying to “borrow” from religions.
I like having a community that supports children, but at the same time let’s not close our eyes to the truth. If there actually is a child screaming throughout Solstice and running around rampant it will, in fact, ruin the experience. I don’t know what the Bay Solstice was like, so I don’t know if this was really the case or if it’s an exaggeration.
It was not an exaggeration.
From what I’ve seen, it’s not rare at all. I count… myself and at least 7 other people who’ve expressed the sentiment in private across both this year and last year (it happened last year too). It is, however, something that is very difficult for people to speak up about. I think what’s going on is that different people care about differing portious of the solstice (community, message, aesthetics, etc) to surprisingly differing degrees, may have sensory sensitivites or difficulty with multiple audio input streams, and may or may not find children positive to be around in principle. I think this community has far more people for whom noisy children destroy the experience than the base rate of other communities.
From what I’ve observed, the degree to which children ruin events for certain people is almost completely lost on many others. It’s difficult to speak up largely because of sentiments like yours, which make it feel like people will think that I’m going against the idea of the community. For me, and I don’t think I’m exceptionally sensitive, I think it removes between a third and half of the value of going to the event.
I typically don’t mind children being present at events (if taken outside if they begin screaming) and don’t have particularly strong sensory issues. I imagine that people with either of those would have had an even worse time than I did.
When I still went to church, there was sometimes a “children’s service” that went in parallel to the church service. Young kids who couldn’t sit still and their parents were strongly encouraged to go to that one instead. It was a small room far enough away, with the pastor’s wife, and I presume they were singing and nursing and changing diapers.
When a little child attended the Leipzig Solstice two years ago, that’s basically what we did. She and her parents had their own room for themselves where they could go when she became tired and fussy. That room wasn’t really far enough away, though. But she was mostly quite happy with the Solstice and made us feel awesome for having her there. So I say children, when properly managed, are a clear boon to a Solstice.
I agree that having the child was a valuable participant at the Leipzig solstice.
I think it’s also about respecting the child. Keeping a child who doesn’t enjoy the event to the extend that the child cries the whole time at the event isn’t respecting the agency of the child.
There are two sentiments here, that I think should both be common:
Children are welcome at community gatherings.
There are times when children should be quiet or absent.
Raemon’s solution is a good one here, as is a norm of parents removing children when they get especially loud. (At this event that may have been less practical than normal, given that it was about 40°F outside, but may have been solved by having a designated children’s room or something.)
I agree with you that having community events be family events is a very good idea and am also fully against the idea of banning children. Nevertheless, there is a big difference between some children making some noise during an event and a single child consistently talking and throwing fits interrupting half of the entire presentation while their parents don’t remove from hearing range.