Hm, I did notice a child—I suspect and presume the same one you mean—who made a number of loud comments during the performance. (That one couldn’t have been Alicorn’s, who is too young to make comments.) At least for the comments that happened while I was on stage with choir, I felt like they got a laugh from the audience, and I found the whole thing mildly entertaining. The rest of the time I didn’t really notice them well enough to recall details. But I can totally see how they could be distracting and bothersome to others.
I fear, though, that—if you feel that the event was truly ‘ruined’ by this—it may be hard to find sufficient common ground between you and child-havers for both to be happy attending the same event. As a non-child-haver myself (and a non-child-wanter) who doesn’t especially dislike children, my suspicion is that you are a significant outlier on the “degree of annoyance” spectrum? But I now find myself interested in data on this.
(EDIT: I just realized that it’s possible that the child was much closer to you than to me, so we might have had different experiences that might color my views differently if I were sitting where you were.)
I don’t normally mind children (if they are taken outside once they begin screaming loudly) and don’t have strong sensory issues. I grew up in environments with plenty of children around, typically regarded most of their noise as more amusing than the people around me seemed to, and rarely minded them making noise since people were polite enough to take them outside if they were throwing a full tantrum. I typically expect this response from parents. Are cultural norms normally different in that regard in California?
I was sitting at the circular tables in the back half of the building. If you were in the front areas near the speakers then I would expect your experience to have been much better. For instance, if you could hear any of the first half of Ben Hoffman’s speech then your experience was certainly far different from mine.
Because I didn’t perceive a significant disruption to the event, I was mentally bucketing you with people I know who severely dislike children and would secretly (or not so secretly) prefer that they not attend events like this at all; or that they should do so only if able to remain silent (which in practice means not at all.) I suspect Anders_H had the same reaction I did.
It sounds like the reality is that the disruption was much more significant in the back of the hall than the front, where I was sitting with the choir. It’s hard for me to form an opinion on a qualitative question like this without having experienced it myself. But I now appreciate that probably for much of the audience, the distraction was more significant than I was giving it credit for.
I also believe I may have met the child and the child’s parent at one point during the festivities, so I admit I’m reacting with a certain amount of defensiveness on behalf of a person who seemed nice enough when I met them in person, as to the complaints of someone I only know online. This is obviously to a large degree a tribal and not a rational response.
I guess that, contra taygetea below, my perception of some of the geek communities I have spent time with, which are made up primarily of non-child-havers, (not this one specifically) is that children are generally disliked and their parents are expected to take any steps necessary to ensure that they don’t inconvenience anybody who doesn’t have children themselves. But I think this may be down to a few loud and prickly individuals, combined with held-over feelings from before my peer group started having children, which are now dissipating but at a variable rate.
I was sitting quite near the front (second row) and the disruption was enough to make me want to leave the event. I could not hear much of Ben Hoffman’s speech at all, despite him being about 30 feet from me making it, and the child was taken upstairs and then ran up and down the balcony creating thumping noise that overpowered the speeches and songs. The interruption during Brienne’s speech was the most heartbreaking. This was not comments or funny, this was yelling and screaming, and then not being removed.
The child was then taken to the afterparty,with dozens of drinking, carousing adults, after midnight. The whole thing with this kid ruined much of solstice for me (for personal reasons as well, because the child was an individual source of stress in her barely mitigated behavior toward me), and I adore children. I have been a teacher, a nanny, a counselor, and I hope to be a parent. I will not keep a child of mine who is fussing in an event where said fussing ruins the experience for others. We traveled to the Bay to attend Solstice, and I was extremely disappointed.
Because I didn’t perceive a significant disruption to the event, I was mentally bucketing you with people I know who severely dislike children and would secretly (or not so secretly) prefer that they not attend events like this at all; or that they should do so only if able to remain silent (which in practice means not at all.) I suspect Anders_H had the same reaction I did.
Just to be clear, I did not attend Solstice this year, and I was mentally reacting to a similar complaint that was made after last year’s Solstice event. At last year’s event, I did not perceive the child to be at all noteworthy as a disturbance. From reading this thread, it seems that the situation may well have been different this year, and that my reaction might have been different if I had been there. I probably should not have commented without being more familiar with what happened at this year’s event.
I also note that my thinking around this may very well be biased, as I used to live in a group house with this child.
Without commenting on the merits and costs of children at Solstice or how they ought to be addressed:
Having attended the East Bay solstice both this year and last, it was my impression that there was significantly more noise made by children during parts when the audience was otherwise quiet this year than there was last year. My recollection is hazy, but I’d guess it was maybe three to five times as much noise? In terms of number of distinct noisy moments and also volume.
This year I was towards the back of the room; last year I was closer to the front.
Self-reply: After reading other comments and replies to me, I’m updating in the direction of believing that I’m unusually tolerant of child noises, for someone not possessed of children myself.
Hm, I did notice a child—I suspect and presume the same one you mean—who made a number of loud comments during the performance. (That one couldn’t have been Alicorn’s, who is too young to make comments.) At least for the comments that happened while I was on stage with choir, I felt like they got a laugh from the audience, and I found the whole thing mildly entertaining. The rest of the time I didn’t really notice them well enough to recall details. But I can totally see how they could be distracting and bothersome to others.
I fear, though, that—if you feel that the event was truly ‘ruined’ by this—it may be hard to find sufficient common ground between you and child-havers for both to be happy attending the same event. As a non-child-haver myself (and a non-child-wanter) who doesn’t especially dislike children, my suspicion is that you are a significant outlier on the “degree of annoyance” spectrum? But I now find myself interested in data on this.
(EDIT: I just realized that it’s possible that the child was much closer to you than to me, so we might have had different experiences that might color my views differently if I were sitting where you were.)
Replied above. There’s a strong chilling effect on bringing up that you don’t want children at events.
I don’t normally mind children (if they are taken outside once they begin screaming loudly) and don’t have strong sensory issues. I grew up in environments with plenty of children around, typically regarded most of their noise as more amusing than the people around me seemed to, and rarely minded them making noise since people were polite enough to take them outside if they were throwing a full tantrum. I typically expect this response from parents. Are cultural norms normally different in that regard in California?
I was sitting at the circular tables in the back half of the building. If you were in the front areas near the speakers then I would expect your experience to have been much better. For instance, if you could hear any of the first half of Ben Hoffman’s speech then your experience was certainly far different from mine.
Because I didn’t perceive a significant disruption to the event, I was mentally bucketing you with people I know who severely dislike children and would secretly (or not so secretly) prefer that they not attend events like this at all; or that they should do so only if able to remain silent (which in practice means not at all.) I suspect Anders_H had the same reaction I did.
It sounds like the reality is that the disruption was much more significant in the back of the hall than the front, where I was sitting with the choir. It’s hard for me to form an opinion on a qualitative question like this without having experienced it myself. But I now appreciate that probably for much of the audience, the distraction was more significant than I was giving it credit for.
I also believe I may have met the child and the child’s parent at one point during the festivities, so I admit I’m reacting with a certain amount of defensiveness on behalf of a person who seemed nice enough when I met them in person, as to the complaints of someone I only know online. This is obviously to a large degree a tribal and not a rational response.
I guess that, contra taygetea below, my perception of some of the geek communities I have spent time with, which are made up primarily of non-child-havers, (not this one specifically) is that children are generally disliked and their parents are expected to take any steps necessary to ensure that they don’t inconvenience anybody who doesn’t have children themselves. But I think this may be down to a few loud and prickly individuals, combined with held-over feelings from before my peer group started having children, which are now dissipating but at a variable rate.
I was sitting quite near the front (second row) and the disruption was enough to make me want to leave the event. I could not hear much of Ben Hoffman’s speech at all, despite him being about 30 feet from me making it, and the child was taken upstairs and then ran up and down the balcony creating thumping noise that overpowered the speeches and songs. The interruption during Brienne’s speech was the most heartbreaking. This was not comments or funny, this was yelling and screaming, and then not being removed.
The child was then taken to the afterparty,with dozens of drinking, carousing adults, after midnight. The whole thing with this kid ruined much of solstice for me (for personal reasons as well, because the child was an individual source of stress in her barely mitigated behavior toward me), and I adore children. I have been a teacher, a nanny, a counselor, and I hope to be a parent. I will not keep a child of mine who is fussing in an event where said fussing ruins the experience for others. We traveled to the Bay to attend Solstice, and I was extremely disappointed.
Just to be clear, I did not attend Solstice this year, and I was mentally reacting to a similar complaint that was made after last year’s Solstice event. At last year’s event, I did not perceive the child to be at all noteworthy as a disturbance. From reading this thread, it seems that the situation may well have been different this year, and that my reaction might have been different if I had been there. I probably should not have commented without being more familiar with what happened at this year’s event.
I also note that my thinking around this may very well be biased, as I used to live in a group house with this child.
Without commenting on the merits and costs of children at Solstice or how they ought to be addressed:
Having attended the East Bay solstice both this year and last, it was my impression that there was significantly more noise made by children during parts when the audience was otherwise quiet this year than there was last year. My recollection is hazy, but I’d guess it was maybe three to five times as much noise? In terms of number of distinct noisy moments and also volume.
This year I was towards the back of the room; last year I was closer to the front.
Self-reply: After reading other comments and replies to me, I’m updating in the direction of believing that I’m unusually tolerant of child noises, for someone not possessed of children myself.