suppose that I agree with Sam Harris that ~all humans find the same set of objective facts to be morally motivating. But then it turns out that we disagree on just which facts those are! How do we resolve this disagreement? We can hardly appeal to objective facts, to do so…
I don’t follow. Sam would say (and I would agree) that which facts which humans find motivating (in the limit of ideal reflection, etc.) is an empirical question. With regard to each human, it is a scientific question about that human’s motivational architecture.
Indeed—but that “in the limit of ideal reflection” clause is the crux of the matter!
Yes, in the limit of ideal reflection, which facts I find motivating is an empirical question. But how long does it take to reach the limit of ideal reflection? What does it take, to get there? (Is it even a well-defined concept?! Well, let’s assume it is… though that’s one heck of an assumption!)
In fact, isn’t one way to reach that “limit of ideal reflection” simply (hah!) to… debate morality? Endless arguments about moral concepts—what is that? Steps on the path to the limit of ideal reflection, mightn’t we say? (And god forbid you and I disagree on just what constitutes “the limit of ideal reflection”, and how to define it, and how to approach it, and how to recognize it! How do we resolve that? What if I say that I’ve reflected quite a bit, now, and I don’t see what else there is to reflect, and I’ve come to my conclusions; what have you to say to me? Can you respond “no, you have more reflecting to do”? Is that an empirical claim?)
What is clear enough is that the answer to these questions—“empirical” though they may be, in a certain technical sense—is a very different sort of fact, than the “scientific” facts that Sam Harris wants to claim are all that we need, to know the answers to moral questions. We can’t really go out and just look. We can’t use any sort of agreed-upon measurement procedure. We don’t really even agree on how to recognize such facts, if and when we come into possession of them!
So labeling this just another “scientific question” seems unwarranted.
I don’t follow. Sam would say (and I would agree) that which facts which humans find motivating (in the limit of ideal reflection, etc.) is an empirical question. With regard to each human, it is a scientific question about that human’s motivational architecture.
Indeed—but that “in the limit of ideal reflection” clause is the crux of the matter!
Yes, in the limit of ideal reflection, which facts I find motivating is an empirical question. But how long does it take to reach the limit of ideal reflection? What does it take, to get there? (Is it even a well-defined concept?! Well, let’s assume it is… though that’s one heck of an assumption!)
In fact, isn’t one way to reach that “limit of ideal reflection” simply (hah!) to… debate morality? Endless arguments about moral concepts—what is that? Steps on the path to the limit of ideal reflection, mightn’t we say? (And god forbid you and I disagree on just what constitutes “the limit of ideal reflection”, and how to define it, and how to approach it, and how to recognize it! How do we resolve that? What if I say that I’ve reflected quite a bit, now, and I don’t see what else there is to reflect, and I’ve come to my conclusions; what have you to say to me? Can you respond “no, you have more reflecting to do”? Is that an empirical claim?)
What is clear enough is that the answer to these questions—“empirical” though they may be, in a certain technical sense—is a very different sort of fact, than the “scientific” facts that Sam Harris wants to claim are all that we need, to know the answers to moral questions. We can’t really go out and just look. We can’t use any sort of agreed-upon measurement procedure. We don’t really even agree on how to recognize such facts, if and when we come into possession of them!
So labeling this just another “scientific question” seems unwarranted.