I think you’re going to need to be more explicit. My best understanding of what you’re saying is this: Each participant has two options—to attempt to actually understand the other, or to attempt to vilify them for disagreeing, and we can lay these out in a payoff matrix and turn this into a game.
I don’t see offhand why this would be a Prisoner’s Dilemma, though I guess that seems plausible if you actually do this. It certainly doesn’t seem like a Stag Hunt or Chicken which I guess are the other classic cooperate-or-don’t games.
My biggest problem here is the question of how you’re constructing the payoff matrices. The reward for defecting is greater ingroup acceptance, at the cost of understanding; the reward for both cooperating is increased understanding, but likely at the cost of ingroup acceptance. And the penalty for cooperating and being defected on seems to be in the form of decreased outgroup acceptance. I’m not sure how you make all these commensurable to come up with a single payoff matrix. I guess you have to somehow, but that the result would be a Prisoner’s Dilemma isn’t obvious. Indeed it’s actually not obvious to me here that cooperating and being defected on is worse than what you get if both players defect, depending on one’s priorities, which woud definitely not make it a Prisoner’s Dilemma. I think that part of what’s going on here is that different people’s weighting of these things may substantially affect the resulting game.
It seems less and less like a Prisoner’s Dilemma the more I think about it. Chances are, “oops” I messed up.
I still feel like the thing with famous names like Sam Harris, is that there is a “drag” force on his penetration on the culture nowadays because there is a bunch of history that has been (incorrectly) publicized. His name is associated with controversy; despite his best to avoid it.
I feel like you need to overcome a “barrier to entry” when listening to him. Unlike Eliezer, who’s public image (in my limited opinion) is actually new user friendly.
Somehow this all is meant to tie back to Prisoner’s Dilemmas. And in my head, it for some reason does. Perhaps I ought to prune that connection. Let me try my best to fully explain that link:
It’s a multi stage “chess game” in where you engage with the ideas that you hear from someone like Sam Harris; but there is doubt because there is a (misconception) of him saying “Muslims are bad” (a trivialization of the argument). What makes me think of a Prisoner’s Dilemma is this: you have to engage into “cooperate” or “don’t cooperate” game with the message based on nothing more or less then reputation of the source.
Sam doesn’t necessarily broadcast his basic values regularly that I can see. He’s a thoughtful, quite rational person; but I feel like he forgets that his image needs work. He needs to do qumbaiya as it were, once a while. To reaffirm his basic beliefs in life and it’s preciousness. (And I bet if I look, I’d find some, but it rarely percolates up on the feed).
Anyway. Chances are I am wrong on using the concept of Prisoner’s Dilemma here. Sorry.
So … a prisoner’s dilemma but on a meta level? Which then results in primary consensus.
What does this have to do with the Prisoners’ Dilemma?
I could be off base here. But a lot of cooperate vs non-cooperate classical stories often involve two parties who hate each other’s ideologies.
Could you then not say: “They have to first agree and/or fight a Prisoner’s Dilemma on an ideological field”?
I think you’re going to need to be more explicit. My best understanding of what you’re saying is this: Each participant has two options—to attempt to actually understand the other, or to attempt to vilify them for disagreeing, and we can lay these out in a payoff matrix and turn this into a game.
I don’t see offhand why this would be a Prisoner’s Dilemma, though I guess that seems plausible if you actually do this. It certainly doesn’t seem like a Stag Hunt or Chicken which I guess are the other classic cooperate-or-don’t games.
My biggest problem here is the question of how you’re constructing the payoff matrices. The reward for defecting is greater ingroup acceptance, at the cost of understanding; the reward for both cooperating is increased understanding, but likely at the cost of ingroup acceptance. And the penalty for cooperating and being defected on seems to be in the form of decreased outgroup acceptance. I’m not sure how you make all these commensurable to come up with a single payoff matrix. I guess you have to somehow, but that the result would be a Prisoner’s Dilemma isn’t obvious. Indeed it’s actually not obvious to me here that cooperating and being defected on is worse than what you get if both players defect, depending on one’s priorities, which woud definitely not make it a Prisoner’s Dilemma. I think that part of what’s going on here is that different people’s weighting of these things may substantially affect the resulting game.
It seems less and less like a Prisoner’s Dilemma the more I think about it. Chances are, “oops” I messed up.
I still feel like the thing with famous names like Sam Harris, is that there is a “drag” force on his penetration on the culture nowadays because there is a bunch of history that has been (incorrectly) publicized. His name is associated with controversy; despite his best to avoid it.
I feel like you need to overcome a “barrier to entry” when listening to him. Unlike Eliezer, who’s public image (in my limited opinion) is actually new user friendly.
Somehow this all is meant to tie back to Prisoner’s Dilemmas. And in my head, it for some reason does. Perhaps I ought to prune that connection. Let me try my best to fully explain that link:
It’s a multi stage “chess game” in where you engage with the ideas that you hear from someone like Sam Harris; but there is doubt because there is a (misconception) of him saying “Muslims are bad” (a trivialization of the argument). What makes me think of a Prisoner’s Dilemma is this: you have to engage into “cooperate” or “don’t cooperate” game with the message based on nothing more or less then reputation of the source.
Sam doesn’t necessarily broadcast his basic values regularly that I can see. He’s a thoughtful, quite rational person; but I feel like he forgets that his image needs work. He needs to do qumbaiya as it were, once a while. To reaffirm his basic beliefs in life and it’s preciousness. (And I bet if I look, I’d find some, but it rarely percolates up on the feed).
Anyway. Chances are I am wrong on using the concept of Prisoner’s Dilemma here. Sorry.