(I haven’t read this carefully because I generally find it hard to participate in this class of convo with Duncan without it wrecking my weekend. I think this is largely a fact about me. I think I have things worth saying despite that, but flagging)
a) I don’t think the timing described here checks out. I believe you took your stuff down on the same day LW 2.0 launched formally, which was in March. Defense of Punch Bug, which I think is the discussion you’re referring to, happened in May, and was crossposted by Davis presumably because you had stopped crossposting your own stuff.
(My recollection is your motivation for pulling was the discussion of Dragon Army + a slow bleed of (probably?) less prominent things that added up to an overall pattern of LessWrong being bad for you)
This isn’t particularly cruxy for me – I think I’d have approximately the same reaction to either set of motivations.
b) I don’t mean it to be a huge judgment that I stopped thinking of you as reliable-for-Ray’s-purposes. Like, it seems like a longstanding thing is we don’t quite live up to each other’s standards of what we think reliable should mean, and that’s okay (albeit slightly tragic).
It matters what the extenuating circumstances are, kinda. It matters whether the LW team personally wronged you, or whether the ecosystem collectively wronged you. But, not much? I had had a model that the set of pressures you were facing wouldn’t lead you to withdraw all your essays. That model was falsified, and that changed my plans.
There’s probably more stuff I could say here that’s worth saying, but I expect it to be fairly costly and time-intensive to dig into For Serious, and not really worth doing in a half-hearted way. (concretely: I’d continue this conversation if it were important to you but it’d be a “okay Ray and Duncan set aside a 4 hour block to put in some kind of serious effort” deal)
Mmmm, seems like I am cross-remembering, then, yeah. Sorry. The core thing, though, was “basically no one will protect you on LW; basically no one will stand up for what’s right; basically no one will stand up for what’s true; basically, people will just allow abuse to extend infinitely, and the people who are doing anti-truth are the ones in power and the ones getting socially rewarded.”
If I actually reached the breaking point on all that in March, and took my stuff down, and then the Benquo stuff happened two months later on top of that, that … doesn’t exactly make that problem feel less bad.
No bid for four hours of your effort at this time.
(I haven’t read this carefully because I generally find it hard to participate in this class of convo with Duncan without it wrecking my weekend. I think this is largely a fact about me. I think I have things worth saying despite that, but flagging)
a) I don’t think the timing described here checks out. I believe you took your stuff down on the same day LW 2.0 launched formally, which was in March. Defense of Punch Bug, which I think is the discussion you’re referring to, happened in May, and was crossposted by Davis presumably because you had stopped crossposting your own stuff.
(My recollection is your motivation for pulling was the discussion of Dragon Army + a slow bleed of (probably?) less prominent things that added up to an overall pattern of LessWrong being bad for you)
This isn’t particularly cruxy for me – I think I’d have approximately the same reaction to either set of motivations.
b) I don’t mean it to be a huge judgment that I stopped thinking of you as reliable-for-Ray’s-purposes. Like, it seems like a longstanding thing is we don’t quite live up to each other’s standards of what we think reliable should mean, and that’s okay (albeit slightly tragic).
It matters what the extenuating circumstances are, kinda. It matters whether the LW team personally wronged you, or whether the ecosystem collectively wronged you. But, not much? I had had a model that the set of pressures you were facing wouldn’t lead you to withdraw all your essays. That model was falsified, and that changed my plans.
There’s probably more stuff I could say here that’s worth saying, but I expect it to be fairly costly and time-intensive to dig into For Serious, and not really worth doing in a half-hearted way. (concretely: I’d continue this conversation if it were important to you but it’d be a “okay Ray and Duncan set aside a 4 hour block to put in some kind of serious effort” deal)
Mmmm, seems like I am cross-remembering, then, yeah. Sorry. The core thing, though, was “basically no one will protect you on LW; basically no one will stand up for what’s right; basically no one will stand up for what’s true; basically, people will just allow abuse to extend infinitely, and the people who are doing anti-truth are the ones in power and the ones getting socially rewarded.”
If I actually reached the breaking point on all that in March, and took my stuff down, and then the Benquo stuff happened two months later on top of that, that … doesn’t exactly make that problem feel less bad.
No bid for four hours of your effort at this time.
Seems reasonable.