People may for instance be severely mistaken about their prospects for improvement, especially while in the midst of acute crisis.(Conceivably, that could even have been his own situation.)
At the risk of sounding callous, because I did not know Chris or understand the suffering he was going through, I believe that Chris was wrong about this. I’m not sure that one can have enough certainty over (the lack of) future happiness that one can reasonably decide to cut one’s losses.
There is a great deal of uncertainty and randomness in life. Good things (and bad things) do happen, and they can happen suddenly and without warning. There were many such instances in my own life, when I thought that things were probably not going to get any better even despite my best efforts, and then, they did so serendipitously. The girlfriend I never thought would be interested in me. The job I never dreamed I would have the chance to have. Life is unfair, but sometimes we get lucky too. Given this uncertainty, isn’t it better to err on the side of caution and choose to live?
I wish Chris had chosen life, and if there are any others out there feeling as he did, please reconsider, and if you really truly must, do it in a way that is cryonics-recoverable and have the proper arrangements in place.
Mike Perry wrote an article for Alcor Magazine earlier this year discussing VSED (voluntary stopping eating and drinking) as an option for brain-threatening disorders. That’s not quite the same as depression-related suicide though.
Please don’t let this influence your decision. Cryonics outcomes are still so uncertain that for them to enter your calculus right now is probably irrational. Live as long as you can before having to roll the dice.
That said, you want something that is physically recoverable and also legally permissible (autopsy free, access to body etc). This is very tricky and you will need better advice that I can offer.
Is there a list of cryonicist-approved suicide methods?
I recall a conversation somewhere which considered the options of a hypothetical terminally ill patient who wished to cryopreserve himself before his brain was further damaged. Finding a country that allows euthanasia and having a cryo team on site seems like the best option!
Failing that I expect drowning in a partially frozen water source (with an observer nearby to secure the body) is probably a reasonably good option. Don’t shoot yourself in the head or jump off a cliff.
Oh, I just noticed you are the same user who was casually ambivalent about the suicide option in another comment somewhere about here. That changes the connotation from pure theory somewhat towards practical advice seeking. I probably should clam up now and play the signalling game!
From what I’ve read, hypothermia, hypoxia, starvation, and dehydration are commonly proposed as they would induce cardiorespiratory death criteria rather than neurological criteria. Starvation would probably be preferred as the reduction in fat makes it feasible to cool faster. Nonetheless, if your condition is not causing literal brain damage over time, I don’t think it is rational to consider “suicide” for cryonics purposes. Science is constantly progressing, and if you wait longer you are more likely to make it to a point where your depression is curable and actuarial escape velocity is reached. Furthermore there will tend to be better cryonics later on (a process you can likely impact by promoting cryonics related discourse in the here and now).
In the mean time, do everything you can to a) reduce suicide risk, and b) reduce feelings of depression. Get enough sleep, eat healthy, hang out with people with positive attitudes. Get professional help if you haven’t already. Things will get better.
At the risk of sounding callous, because I did not know Chris or understand the suffering he was going through, I believe that Chris was wrong about this. I’m not sure that one can have enough certainty over (the lack of) future happiness that one can reasonably decide to cut one’s losses.
There is a great deal of uncertainty and randomness in life. Good things (and bad things) do happen, and they can happen suddenly and without warning. There were many such instances in my own life, when I thought that things were probably not going to get any better even despite my best efforts, and then, they did so serendipitously. The girlfriend I never thought would be interested in me. The job I never dreamed I would have the chance to have. Life is unfair, but sometimes we get lucky too. Given this uncertainty, isn’t it better to err on the side of caution and choose to live?
I wish Chris had chosen life, and if there are any others out there feeling as he did, please reconsider, and if you really truly must, do it in a way that is cryonics-recoverable and have the proper arrangements in place.
Is there a list of cryonicist-approved suicide methods? That could prove helpful.
Unfortunately cryo organizations have to stay a million miles away from this sort of thing or bring on a PR disaster.
Mike Perry wrote an article for Alcor Magazine earlier this year discussing VSED (voluntary stopping eating and drinking) as an option for brain-threatening disorders. That’s not quite the same as depression-related suicide though.
Yeah. I imagine looking like a suicide cult is almost literally the last thing anyone involved in cryo wants.
Please don’t let this influence your decision. Cryonics outcomes are still so uncertain that for them to enter your calculus right now is probably irrational. Live as long as you can before having to roll the dice.
That said, you want something that is physically recoverable and also legally permissible (autopsy free, access to body etc). This is very tricky and you will need better advice that I can offer.
I recall a conversation somewhere which considered the options of a hypothetical terminally ill patient who wished to cryopreserve himself before his brain was further damaged. Finding a country that allows euthanasia and having a cryo team on site seems like the best option!
Failing that I expect drowning in a partially frozen water source (with an observer nearby to secure the body) is probably a reasonably good option. Don’t shoot yourself in the head or jump off a cliff.
Oh, I just noticed you are the same user who was casually ambivalent about the suicide option in another comment somewhere about here. That changes the connotation from pure theory somewhat towards practical advice seeking. I probably should clam up now and play the signalling game!
Oh you beautiful countersignalling master, you.
Dammit; all the good ways to die are slow and painful. Might as well live.
But nitrous oxide would be fun.
Signalling against suicide makes a lot of people want to kill themselves, but I’m not one of them. Bunch of whiners...
MDMA, acid and meth are probably all more fun. :)
I do have a couple grams of adderall… om nom nom.
MDMA is a legit treatment option I should probably try; I wouldn’t want to influence public opinion against it.
If considering illicit treatment options look into ketamine too. :)
I second this. There are certain circumstances under which it would make sense to get preserved asap. You probably don’t have them.
From what I’ve read, hypothermia, hypoxia, starvation, and dehydration are commonly proposed as they would induce cardiorespiratory death criteria rather than neurological criteria. Starvation would probably be preferred as the reduction in fat makes it feasible to cool faster. Nonetheless, if your condition is not causing literal brain damage over time, I don’t think it is rational to consider “suicide” for cryonics purposes. Science is constantly progressing, and if you wait longer you are more likely to make it to a point where your depression is curable and actuarial escape velocity is reached. Furthermore there will tend to be better cryonics later on (a process you can likely impact by promoting cryonics related discourse in the here and now).
In the mean time, do everything you can to a) reduce suicide risk, and b) reduce feelings of depression. Get enough sleep, eat healthy, hang out with people with positive attitudes. Get professional help if you haven’t already. Things will get better.