Hello again, Thanks for your reply, and I’m happy to agree with the general direction of what you wrote, and add some odd points of mine as well.
There is one very positive thing I see in being able to hold these thoughts, concepts and ideas. In many instances, like the ones we are discussing here in this post, there is no correct answer for everyone, or even you. But, if you can hold the various views, paradoxes and abstract ideas in your mind, you can still choose a lot of useful and enriching tentative positions to give rise to a more creative, healthy inner climate, with more acceptance and flexibility.
I don’t think we can go much higher in terms of abstraction levels without abstracting away that which we talk about. If you get rid of free will, or the idea that we are different from that around us, then nothing can really be said at all.
Perhaps we only talk about what we don’t understand fully, as that which we already understand seems uninteresting and trivial.
My view on this is a bit different. I can absolutely go beyond this level of abstraction. And I also see a point in it, but maybe it isn’t so important to everyone, and I don’t see it as so valuable to delve into here either. This level is sufficiently strong to deal with most ‘weird’ occurring thoughts, concepts and ideas, without being unnecessarily tripped up.
Now, to address your concerns, it might be better to use an “Unpopular” model like MBTI. To simplify, I try to improve all Cognitive Functions; and to apply them to life, learning not only the preferred way for each Function to deal with an issue—but also to discern when my most used tool simply isn’t the best for the task at hand. From the way you express concern, and focus on ‘living’, I assume you do this as well.
So, it is important for me to delve into this—but similarly it is very important to me to work on supination in my foot, delve into a specific emotional part, to name some of the things I care about.
I wouldn’t say talking about the meaning of life is anymore ‘important’ than those—it is just that that particular function in me, my Ne, is far more developed. And so I want to increase the balance through developing the functions that are weaker, not only in comparison to itself, but to the complexity level of my Ne. But of course, as of now, that is my most used tool, and even though I have others I use, that is still the closest to how I would say ‘I am’ - but that is changing as well.
Going further here is beside the point I believe, but to make that clear to anyone reading this:
It is quite dangerous to be ‘creative’ and boundary-pushing without certain skills. Like anything, you don’t do deep diving without proper knowledge and training—and so delving into things, like we have illustrated here, takes much skill, much training and to actually use the correct cognitive ‘tool’ for the job.
There are various ways to deal with the Question I posted, but I see it more as each of them tackling one piece of the problem. Ideally, I would prefer to have more access in myself to the various tools, and to see how each can improve a specific part of a struggle/problem. Because noticing that focusing on my supination is much more efficient in feeling balance, harmony or progress, than sorting out things in the Ne part of my mind, isn’t ‘obvious’ to me.
I greatly thank you for the exchange, and if you have a finishing comment, go ahead. If you want to continue talking about things, I think DM is the right way to go.
Yes, it seems that there’s no one correct answer or Truth. Humans just have a tendency to unify things and to search for something to rely on. Those who don’t trust themselves will look for something external which seems to back them up, like some politics, philosophy, religion or science which can help them believe in their own values. Even outside of science we seem to look for some one great unity, branding it “Love”, “God”, “Dao”, “Unifying theory”, etc. The assumptions that we make about the very nature of the universe and of truth seem to be mere tendencies in human perception.
And you’re correct, learning more is not necessarily bad, one will expand ones tool-box. But too much learning and most people will drown in unorganized knowledge. Another bad outcome is too much unification and need for consistency, for if you desperately try to solve all these paradoxes you get the empty set as a result. Two common outcomes seem to be spiritual weirdos and nihilistic logicians.
I do the same, yes. When I became more mature, I didn’t destroy my immature part, I just became capable of being both. As you may be able to tell, I enjoy immaturity more than most. But I think this approach is still insufficient. Learning everything relevant in our daily lives might be a sort of error, since we’re overfitting ourselves to one culture, one set of social norms, one small sample of social relationships, and so on. But on the other hand, why not? If we align with a larger set of training data, I think it’s likely to end up with a worse local result. You might be aware of this danger already, I just encounter a lot of people who deal with general issues at the level of society, as an escape from their person lives, or because their interests in life aren’t aligned with themselves as individuals in society.
Perhaps I’ve spend too much time warning against certain things, instead of imparting useful knowledge. But in my own road of self-development, I’ve passed through these paradigms, and ended up with a local focus. It’s not at the cost of the higher perspective at all, since internal improvement seems to radiate outwards. I see an almost limitless amount of potential here, and believe that the “outside” approach might be mistaken, by which I mean that the core reasons for scientific and philosophical engagement is rooted in the personal. My way is not universal, of course. I think my approach is partly because the scientific side doesn’t grab my attention enough, I need passion, faith, hope and other emotional aspects in order to engage with sufficient depth for neurogenesis and other changes to occur.
There may be a loss of harmony with specialization, but I find that living and being properly fired up requires deep engagement, and that one domain is sufficient. Not becoming great, but becoming a great [Something]. That increasing ones scope of thinking might be a cause of getting older, meant as losing ones youthful energy and confidence as it’s gradually divided over a larger and larger area. That said, the right psychological “contradictions” will bring about excellent results. A man who has integrated both the masculine and the feminine will have the advantages of both. If you engage in many different subjects in depth, that seems to me a sort of ADHD or general need for cognition, if not habit or the consumption of “insight porn”. But I’ll assume that you’ve already taken such worries into account.
I’d love to continue in DMs, but I might just ramble with a loose association to the topic at hand unless I have something to anchor me. And my personal interests won’t necessarily overlap with yours, so if the conversation so far has been too distant from what you’ve been looking for, it might not be beneficial for you to continue in DMs. I’ll let you decide, I’m quite easygoing
Hello again,
Thanks for your reply, and I’m happy to agree with the general direction of what you wrote, and add some odd points of mine as well.
There is one very positive thing I see in being able to hold these thoughts, concepts and ideas. In many instances, like the ones we are discussing here in this post, there is no correct answer for everyone, or even you. But, if you can hold the various views, paradoxes and abstract ideas in your mind, you can still choose a lot of useful and enriching tentative positions to give rise to a more creative, healthy inner climate, with more acceptance and flexibility.
My view on this is a bit different. I can absolutely go beyond this level of abstraction. And I also see a point in it, but maybe it isn’t so important to everyone, and I don’t see it as so valuable to delve into here either. This level is sufficiently strong to deal with most ‘weird’ occurring thoughts, concepts and ideas, without being unnecessarily tripped up.
Now, to address your concerns, it might be better to use an “Unpopular” model like MBTI. To simplify, I try to improve all Cognitive Functions; and to apply them to life, learning not only the preferred way for each Function to deal with an issue—but also to discern when my most used tool simply isn’t the best for the task at hand.
From the way you express concern, and focus on ‘living’, I assume you do this as well.
So, it is important for me to delve into this—but similarly it is very important to me to work on supination in my foot, delve into a specific emotional part, to name some of the things I care about.
I wouldn’t say talking about the meaning of life is anymore ‘important’ than those—it is just that that particular function in me, my Ne, is far more developed. And so I want to increase the balance through developing the functions that are weaker, not only in comparison to itself, but to the complexity level of my Ne. But of course, as of now, that is my most used tool, and even though I have others I use, that is still the closest to how I would say ‘I am’ - but that is changing as well.
Going further here is beside the point I believe, but to make that clear to anyone reading this:
It is quite dangerous to be ‘creative’ and boundary-pushing without certain skills. Like anything, you don’t do deep diving without proper knowledge and training—and so delving into things, like we have illustrated here, takes much skill, much training and to actually use the correct cognitive ‘tool’ for the job.
There are various ways to deal with the Question I posted, but I see it more as each of them tackling one piece of the problem. Ideally, I would prefer to have more access in myself to the various tools, and to see how each can improve a specific part of a struggle/problem. Because noticing that focusing on my supination is much more efficient in feeling balance, harmony or progress, than sorting out things in the Ne part of my mind, isn’t ‘obvious’ to me.
I greatly thank you for the exchange, and if you have a finishing comment, go ahead. If you want to continue talking about things, I think DM is the right way to go.
Gratefully,
Caerulea-Lawrence
Likewise, thanks for replying!
Yes, it seems that there’s no one correct answer or Truth. Humans just have a tendency to unify things and to search for something to rely on. Those who don’t trust themselves will look for something external which seems to back them up, like some politics, philosophy, religion or science which can help them believe in their own values. Even outside of science we seem to look for some one great unity, branding it “Love”, “God”, “Dao”, “Unifying theory”, etc.
The assumptions that we make about the very nature of the universe and of truth seem to be mere tendencies in human perception.
And you’re correct, learning more is not necessarily bad, one will expand ones tool-box. But too much learning and most people will drown in unorganized knowledge. Another bad outcome is too much unification and need for consistency, for if you desperately try to solve all these paradoxes you get the empty set as a result. Two common outcomes seem to be spiritual weirdos and nihilistic logicians.
I do the same, yes. When I became more mature, I didn’t destroy my immature part, I just became capable of being both. As you may be able to tell, I enjoy immaturity more than most.
But I think this approach is still insufficient. Learning everything relevant in our daily lives might be a sort of error, since we’re overfitting ourselves to one culture, one set of social norms, one small sample of social relationships, and so on. But on the other hand, why not? If we align with a larger set of training data, I think it’s likely to end up with a worse local result. You might be aware of this danger already, I just encounter a lot of people who deal with general issues at the level of society, as an escape from their person lives, or because their interests in life aren’t aligned with themselves as individuals in society.
Perhaps I’ve spend too much time warning against certain things, instead of imparting useful knowledge. But in my own road of self-development, I’ve passed through these paradigms, and ended up with a local focus. It’s not at the cost of the higher perspective at all, since internal improvement seems to radiate outwards.
I see an almost limitless amount of potential here, and believe that the “outside” approach might be mistaken, by which I mean that the core reasons for scientific and philosophical engagement is rooted in the personal. My way is not universal, of course. I think my approach is partly because the scientific side doesn’t grab my attention enough, I need passion, faith, hope and other emotional aspects in order to engage with sufficient depth for neurogenesis and other changes to occur.
There may be a loss of harmony with specialization, but I find that living and being properly fired up requires deep engagement, and that one domain is sufficient. Not becoming great, but becoming a great [Something]. That increasing ones scope of thinking might be a cause of getting older, meant as losing ones youthful energy and confidence as it’s gradually divided over a larger and larger area. That said, the right psychological “contradictions” will bring about excellent results. A man who has integrated both the masculine and the feminine will have the advantages of both.
If you engage in many different subjects in depth, that seems to me a sort of ADHD or general need for cognition, if not habit or the consumption of “insight porn”. But I’ll assume that you’ve already taken such worries into account.
I’d love to continue in DMs, but I might just ramble with a loose association to the topic at hand unless I have something to anchor me. And my personal interests won’t necessarily overlap with yours, so if the conversation so far has been too distant from what you’ve been looking for, it might not be beneficial for you to continue in DMs. I’ll let you decide, I’m quite easygoing