Suppose there’s a crisis at work, and in response to that crisis I step in and solve a problem. Suppose, as part of solving that problem, I take some steps (X) that I don’t enjoy doing and don’t wish to do again. Suppose my boss notices that I did X and was effective at it and decides that she wants me to do X more regularly, and being familiar with the uses of positive reinforcement decides to hand me a large bonus at our next status meeting. Further, she praises me to the skies in public for having done X, and does so in a way that communicates the (entirely accurate) message that my continuing to receive such praise is contingent on my continuing to do X.
I assert that, in this scenario, my boss is applying positive reinforcement techniques with the goal of increasing my likelihood of doing X, by providing me with a bonus to something I’ve already done, where X is something I don’t wish to do.
Do you agree?
As to whether, in so doing, she’s manipulating me… (shrug) I’ve already had that discussion once too often this week. If our only remaining point of disagreement about that scenario is whether the word “manipulating” properly applies to it, I’m happy to leave that point unresolved.
I assert that, in this scenario, my boss is applying positive reinforcement techniques with the goal of increasing my likelihood of doing X, by providing me with a bonus to something I’ve already done, where X is something I don’t wish to do.
So? Are you saying this is a bad thing? That’s what I’m asking wedrifid. Are you offended by said boss doing this?
Ironically, in your scenario, your boss is actually elevating your status: trying to please you in order to obtain a consent that in principle could be had by simply ordering you to do more X. So I don’t think it’s analagous to the situation that upsets wedrifid here.
So, you asked for “an example of a situation where somebody being, say, happy that you did something, means that they are manipulating you to do something you don’t “wish to do”,” and I gave you one.
Apparently, you also wanted an example where the person isn’t also elevating my status in the process, isn’t trying to please me, and isn’t trying to get me to agree to something that they could order me to do. I didn’t realize that, sorry.
No, I can’t think of any coherent examples where someone tries to use positive reinforcement to alter my behavior by doing something that doesn’t please me.
As am I. I refer any interested observers to the previous comments by myself, TheOtherDave, Vaniver and others, as well as the details of the originally quoted example, including the emphasis on successive approximation. I expect that everyone who wishes to understand will from existing comments and that further engagement would be both futile and constitute a reward of an interaction style which is undesirable.
Apparently, you also wanted an example where the person isn’t also elevating my status in the process
Nope, that was a side comment. The main point is that wedrifid said this was a bad thing, and I was asking him. So, it’s actually an answer from someone other than wedrifid that didn’t meet my criteria. ;-)
It depends on why TheOtherDave doesn’t like doing whatever. If it’s something that he could get to like or at least tolerate by being more familiar with it, no biggie.
If it’s just aggravating and he doesn’t get used to it, but it doesn’t come up often enough to make him miserable, then it’s one of those things which is apt to happen in jobs.
If it’s something that takes so many additional hours that he’s running himself ragged, then reinforcing him for doing it would be bad for him in the long run.
Well, I’m not wedrifid, but OK.
Suppose there’s a crisis at work, and in response to that crisis I step in and solve a problem.
Suppose, as part of solving that problem, I take some steps (X) that I don’t enjoy doing and don’t wish to do again.
Suppose my boss notices that I did X and was effective at it and decides that she wants me to do X more regularly, and being familiar with the uses of positive reinforcement decides to hand me a large bonus at our next status meeting. Further, she praises me to the skies in public for having done X, and does so in a way that communicates the (entirely accurate) message that my continuing to receive such praise is contingent on my continuing to do X.
I assert that, in this scenario, my boss is applying positive reinforcement techniques with the goal of increasing my likelihood of doing X, by providing me with a bonus to something I’ve already done, where X is something I don’t wish to do.
Do you agree?
As to whether, in so doing, she’s manipulating me… (shrug) I’ve already had that discussion once too often this week. If our only remaining point of disagreement about that scenario is whether the word “manipulating” properly applies to it, I’m happy to leave that point unresolved.
So? Are you saying this is a bad thing? That’s what I’m asking wedrifid. Are you offended by said boss doing this?
Ironically, in your scenario, your boss is actually elevating your status: trying to please you in order to obtain a consent that in principle could be had by simply ordering you to do more X. So I don’t think it’s analagous to the situation that upsets wedrifid here.
So, you asked for “an example of a situation where somebody being, say, happy that you did something, means that they are manipulating you to do something you don’t “wish to do”,” and I gave you one.
Apparently, you also wanted an example where the person isn’t also elevating my status in the process, isn’t trying to please me, and isn’t trying to get me to agree to something that they could order me to do. I didn’t realize that, sorry.
No, I can’t think of any coherent examples where someone tries to use positive reinforcement to alter my behavior by doing something that doesn’t please me.
Tapping out now.
As am I. I refer any interested observers to the previous comments by myself, TheOtherDave, Vaniver and others, as well as the details of the originally quoted example, including the emphasis on successive approximation. I expect that everyone who wishes to understand will from existing comments and that further engagement would be both futile and constitute a reward of an interaction style which is undesirable.
Nope, that was a side comment. The main point is that wedrifid said this was a bad thing, and I was asking him. So, it’s actually an answer from someone other than wedrifid that didn’t meet my criteria. ;-)
It depends on why TheOtherDave doesn’t like doing whatever. If it’s something that he could get to like or at least tolerate by being more familiar with it, no biggie.
If it’s just aggravating and he doesn’t get used to it, but it doesn’t come up often enough to make him miserable, then it’s one of those things which is apt to happen in jobs.
If it’s something that takes so many additional hours that he’s running himself ragged, then reinforcing him for doing it would be bad for him in the long run.