Endocytosis is the process by which a cell engulfs a food particle, by extending itself around it and pulling it into its interior. Metaphorically, I am suggesting a process whereby one person similarly extends their own reality around another, undermining the other’s perceptions and replacing them with their own. For example, that is what “negging” is about. It is intended to convey the message, at least in the imagination of those advocating it (fictionally imagined here), that the man’s beliefs are reality and the woman’s are merely pretty lies that deserve to die.
PUA covers a wide range from decent behavior to just plain vile. Depending on who’s talking, negging can be light-hearted teasing between people who know it’s a game or a deliberate effort to keep the target off-balance and dependent on the targeter’s good opinion.
It can also be an effort at light-hearted teasing which goes wrong because some PUAs just assume that beautiful women aren’t nervous about how they’re perceived.
Endocytosis is an interesting metaphor, and it would cover everything from total environment abusiveness (prisons, cults, some dysfunctional familes) to efforts to keep one’s voice whispering in the back of a subject’s mind. (Anyone have the quote about Saruman handy?)
“Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment. Those who listened unwarily to that voice could seldom report the words that they heard; and if they did, they wondered, for little power remained in them. Mostly they remembered only that it was a delight to hear the voice speaking, all that it said seemed wise and reasonable, and desire awoke in them by swift agreement to seem wise themselves. When others spoke they seemed harsh and uncouth by contrast; and if they gainsaid the voice, anger was kindled in the hearts of those under the spell. For some the spell lasted only while the voice spoke to them, and when it spoke to another they smiled, as men do who see through a juggler’s trick while others gape at it. For many the sound of the voice alone was enough to hold them enthralled; but for those whom it conquered the spell endured when they were far away, and ever they heard that soft voice whispering and urging them. But none were unmoved; none rejected its pleas and its commands without an effort of mind and will...”
From The Two Towers, the chapter “The Voice of Saruman”. The passage, btw, seems to have become a favorite of the American Right to use of Obama.
I recommend Clarisse Thorne’s Confessions of a Pickup Artist Chaser, a substantial overview of the PUA communities.
In an Amazon box on my desk right now :-).
PUA does cover a wide range, but so does, for example, science fiction fandom. Is that one thing, or many things? Fannish fans may look down on Trekkies, and literary types scoff at fannish fans, and all of them scoff at commercial conventions, but really, they do all join up, even if some of them are barely aware of the others’ existence. PUA is also many things, but they also join up, and if you try to take some and leave the rest, you’ll have contact with the rest anyway through the community, and one way or another will have to take up an attitude about it. And one of the many things that is PUA is this particular thing that I’ve been talking about. To name it more explicitly, MDFS BDSM, not as bedroom games, but as ideology. There are smoking guns here.
And beyond endocytosis is phagocytosis, the digestion or destruction of the ingested particle.
I agree about MDFS (presumably Male Dominant Female Submissive) as ideology is worse than problematic. It’s putting a penny in the fusebox so far as abuse is concerned.
Is there a LessWrongian term for a self-sustaining blind spot?
Interesting point about to what extent fandom is a thing, or more generally, any diverse bunch of human social systems which are sort of under one name are a thing.
Endocytosis is the process by which a cell engulfs a food particle, by extending itself around it and pulling it into its interior. Metaphorically, I am suggesting a process whereby one person similarly extends their own reality around another, undermining the other’s perceptions and replacing them with their own. For example, that is what “negging” is about. It is intended to convey the message, at least in the imagination of those advocating it (fictionally imagined here), that the man’s beliefs are reality and the woman’s are merely pretty lies that deserve to die.
I recommend Clarisse Thorne’s Confessions of a Pickup Artist Chaser, a substantial overview of the PUA communities.
PUA covers a wide range from decent behavior to just plain vile. Depending on who’s talking, negging can be light-hearted teasing between people who know it’s a game or a deliberate effort to keep the target off-balance and dependent on the targeter’s good opinion.
It can also be an effort at light-hearted teasing which goes wrong because some PUAs just assume that beautiful women aren’t nervous about how they’re perceived.
Endocytosis is an interesting metaphor, and it would cover everything from total environment abusiveness (prisons, cults, some dysfunctional familes) to efforts to keep one’s voice whispering in the back of a subject’s mind. (Anyone have the quote about Saruman handy?)
“Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment. Those who listened unwarily to that voice could seldom report the words that they heard; and if they did, they wondered, for little power remained in them. Mostly they remembered only that it was a delight to hear the voice speaking, all that it said seemed wise and reasonable, and desire awoke in them by swift agreement to seem wise themselves. When others spoke they seemed harsh and uncouth by contrast; and if they gainsaid the voice, anger was kindled in the hearts of those under the spell. For some the spell lasted only while the voice spoke to them, and when it spoke to another they smiled, as men do who see through a juggler’s trick while others gape at it. For many the sound of the voice alone was enough to hold them enthralled; but for those whom it conquered the spell endured when they were far away, and ever they heard that soft voice whispering and urging them. But none were unmoved; none rejected its pleas and its commands without an effort of mind and will...”
From The Two Towers, the chapter “The Voice of Saruman”. The passage, btw, seems to have become a favorite of the American Right to use of Obama.
In an Amazon box on my desk right now :-).
PUA does cover a wide range, but so does, for example, science fiction fandom. Is that one thing, or many things? Fannish fans may look down on Trekkies, and literary types scoff at fannish fans, and all of them scoff at commercial conventions, but really, they do all join up, even if some of them are barely aware of the others’ existence. PUA is also many things, but they also join up, and if you try to take some and leave the rest, you’ll have contact with the rest anyway through the community, and one way or another will have to take up an attitude about it. And one of the many things that is PUA is this particular thing that I’ve been talking about. To name it more explicitly, MDFS BDSM, not as bedroom games, but as ideology. There are smoking guns here.
And beyond endocytosis is phagocytosis, the digestion or destruction of the ingested particle.
I agree about MDFS (presumably Male Dominant Female Submissive) as ideology is worse than problematic. It’s putting a penny in the fusebox so far as abuse is concerned.
Is there a LessWrongian term for a self-sustaining blind spot?
Interesting point about to what extent fandom is a thing, or more generally, any diverse bunch of human social systems which are sort of under one name are a thing.
There ought to be one, given that there have been lots of posts about them like this one which are often mentioned.
(I’m being deliberately vague about whether by ought to I mean ‘is likely’ or ‘had better’. :-))
Your link appears to point to the imagination of a critic, not the imagination of an advocate.
It’s the imagination of a critic imagining an advocate. I’ll try and reword the link to make that clearer.