Your reaction to the idea of kisses to encourage a man to pick up his clothes reminds me of the way a number of women (including me) react to the idea of PUA. It’s going ballistic about a hypothetical boundary violation and it’s more fun in LW, where one is apparently outnumbered by people who don’t see the boundary violation at all. (The boundary violation is hypothetical because the person may not have experienced it..)
Applying that label is both grossly inaccurate and unwelcome.
I noted that certain instances of ‘influence by reward’ I wouldn’t accept and would respond by asking her politely to stop and then escalating as necessary to ensure that the undesired rewarding was not itself rewarded. A couple of users seemed to find the notion that someone else doesn’t unconditionally accept all reinforcement offensive.
I’d say that describing small amounts of M&Ms as a significant health threat is a sign of using arguments as soldiers.
This is utterly bizarre. Even allowing that you completely missed the obvious meaning of “the most significant risks are the health and dental considerations and they are so insignificant that I’m making a joke about them” my words still can’t be taken to mean “there is a significant health threat to small amounts of M&Ms”. Not only that but the tangent being answered, something about the relative “risk” of kisses vs M&Ms isn’t something I have a position on so I have no idea which side to send ‘soldiers’ to. Neither of those things are at all ‘risky’. It pretty much comes down to “rotten teeth and diabetes vs spreading infectious mononucleosis and herpes simplex”—both at insignificant probabilities and I don’t care either way.
On the other hand, you’ve got better access to your internal experience than I do.
Access to internal experience isn’t required to dismiss your accusations. Non-motivated reading of my actual words is.
If I was going to “go ballistic” about anything it would be the active misrepresentation of my words and actions by yourself and pjeby. Not only have you been allowed to get away with slander without sanction you have been actually rewarded for it. I am disgusted.
Sorry for not getting that you intended to make a joke—I’ve found that, even in real life and more so online, hyperbolic humor and reduction to absurdity are risky strategies. People are apt to not get the context, or to not agree on what’s absurd.
I hadn’t gotten around to asking why I was getting upvotes on my previous comments in this thread. It’s possible that people agreed with my take what you said, but it’s also possible that they mostly found the prospect of a quarrel entertaining. (They presumably agreed with me to some extent, or we’d both be getting upvotes.)
Part of my reason for saying “ballistic” is that I don’t think most people would consider a policy of kisses for putting clothes in the hamper to be such a serious infringement that if it isn’t stopped after one request, it’s a good reason for divorce.
My aversion to hostile takeover of internal motivations is much stronger than my desire for the affections of any particular individual.
I admit I missed this sentence on previous readings, and it’s probably at the center of your objections. I do think “hostile” is extreme, but maybe I’m missing something.
I think there’s a middle range between benign efforts at improvement and hostility—the range where the person is fairly indifferent to the attempted behavior change. I’m guessing that it’s the lack of respect for conscious choice by the person being reinforced which causes you to frame it as hostile.
even in real life and more so online, hyperbolic humor and reduction to absurdity are risky strategies. People are apt to not get the context, or to not agree on what’s absurd.
This is true.
I’ve also found, especially online, that characterizing the emotional states of my interlocutors for them is a risky strategy. On those rare occasions where the other person’s emotional state really is important, I find I do better to explicitly ask for confirmation of my perception about it, rather than implying or referring to it as an observed fact.
Part of my reason for saying “ballistic” is that I don’t think most people would consider a policy of kisses for putting clothes in the hamper to be such a serious infringement that if it isn’t stopped after one request, it’s a good reason for divorce.
That position sounds bizarre, I don’t think it exists outside of pjeby’s straw man. I believe my stated response was to shun the kisses.
As it happens I’ve never even had to escalate to the “ask politely” level. A smirk, a knowing look and a “Really?” avoided the conflict while keeping the interaction at the level of play, while still communicating the presence of a boundary.
I think there’s a middle range between benign efforts at improvement and hostility—the range where the person is fairly indifferent to the attempted behavior change. I’m guessing that it’s the lack of respect for conscious choice by the person being reinforced which causes you to frame it as hostile.
Your reaction to the idea of kisses to encourage a man to pick up his clothes reminds me of the way a number of women (including me) react to the idea of PUA. It’s going ballistic about a hypothetical boundary violation and it’s more fun in LW, where one is apparently outnumbered by people who don’t see the boundary violation at all. (The boundary violation is hypothetical because the person may not have experienced it..)
Applying that label is both grossly inaccurate and unwelcome.
I noted that certain instances of ‘influence by reward’ I wouldn’t accept and would respond by asking her politely to stop and then escalating as necessary to ensure that the undesired rewarding was not itself rewarded. A couple of users seemed to find the notion that someone else doesn’t unconditionally accept all reinforcement offensive.
I’d say that describing small amounts of M&Ms as a significant health threat is a sign of using arguments as soldiers.
On the other hand, you’ve got better access to your internal experience than I do.
This is utterly bizarre. Even allowing that you completely missed the obvious meaning of “the most significant risks are the health and dental considerations and they are so insignificant that I’m making a joke about them” my words still can’t be taken to mean “there is a significant health threat to small amounts of M&Ms”. Not only that but the tangent being answered, something about the relative “risk” of kisses vs M&Ms isn’t something I have a position on so I have no idea which side to send ‘soldiers’ to. Neither of those things are at all ‘risky’. It pretty much comes down to “rotten teeth and diabetes vs spreading infectious mononucleosis and herpes simplex”—both at insignificant probabilities and I don’t care either way.
Access to internal experience isn’t required to dismiss your accusations. Non-motivated reading of my actual words is.
If I was going to “go ballistic” about anything it would be the active misrepresentation of my words and actions by yourself and pjeby. Not only have you been allowed to get away with slander without sanction you have been actually rewarded for it. I am disgusted.
Sorry for not getting that you intended to make a joke—I’ve found that, even in real life and more so online, hyperbolic humor and reduction to absurdity are risky strategies. People are apt to not get the context, or to not agree on what’s absurd.
I hadn’t gotten around to asking why I was getting upvotes on my previous comments in this thread. It’s possible that people agreed with my take what you said, but it’s also possible that they mostly found the prospect of a quarrel entertaining. (They presumably agreed with me to some extent, or we’d both be getting upvotes.)
Part of my reason for saying “ballistic” is that I don’t think most people would consider a policy of kisses for putting clothes in the hamper to be such a serious infringement that if it isn’t stopped after one request, it’s a good reason for divorce.
I admit I missed this sentence on previous readings, and it’s probably at the center of your objections. I do think “hostile” is extreme, but maybe I’m missing something.
I think there’s a middle range between benign efforts at improvement and hostility—the range where the person is fairly indifferent to the attempted behavior change. I’m guessing that it’s the lack of respect for conscious choice by the person being reinforced which causes you to frame it as hostile.
This is true.
I’ve also found, especially online, that characterizing the emotional states of my interlocutors for them is a risky strategy. On those rare occasions where the other person’s emotional state really is important, I find I do better to explicitly ask for confirmation of my perception about it, rather than implying or referring to it as an observed fact.
You’re right about describing other people’s emotional states.
That position sounds bizarre, I don’t think it exists outside of pjeby’s straw man. I believe my stated response was to shun the kisses.
As it happens I’ve never even had to escalate to the “ask politely” level. A smirk, a knowing look and a “Really?” avoided the conflict while keeping the interaction at the level of play, while still communicating the presence of a boundary.
Yes.