I don’t know what to make of this. It means everything I’d pieced together about people is utterly, utterly wrong, because it assumed that they all valued truth, and understanding—the pursuits of intelligence when you don’t have the political trait.
“Truth” and “understanding” seem to work as applause lights in this sentence. “Status” is used to the opposite effect throughout the post.
I think you’re premise is a little confused. It sounds like you previously viewed status-seeking as the emotional equivalent of immoral, but now you don’t because you realize it has adaptational advantages. I find it strange that you feel evolutionary causation is adequate to justify something, but I guess I won’t question that.
More to the point, I think you’re misjudging status. Status isn’t as simple Machiavellian plays for power. It’s generally assumed that only sociopaths play for dominance in and of itself. The term “status” feels kinda dirty when you analyze human interaction from afar. There’s always the subtext that if you play for it, you’re a bad person. That’s not the way it feels when you’re actually talking to other people.
Seeking status can feel like trying to live up to the expectations of people you care about. It can feel like trying to stand on equal ground with your friends. It can feel like trying be comfortable talking to that girl at the grocery store.
When people look at status seeking under a microscope, they usually try to screen off the humanity of its experience and so it comes off as something a super villain would do. When you actually feel it, it feels right. It feels very human. If you interact with other people at all, I can almost (not quite) guarantee that you seek status, you just don’t call it status.
I find it strange that you feel evolutionary causation is adequate to justify something, but I guess I won’t question that.
Not justify: instead, explain. I understood that previously, handoflixue felt that status was dirty, but in understanding it has come to feel that it’s just part of human nature (for most people, as the post points out).
Not sure I agree; people are often asked to justify their decisions—to argue their choice was better than another, and calling those arguments an explanation feels like we’re stretching the definition of ‘explain’.
This is a horrible justification for anything. Doing something bad doesn’t automatically make someone feel bad. It’s an especially bad test of status-seeking’s moral status because (normal) people rarely feel bad about doing something they perceive as normal even if it’s bad. In any case it’s not true that it always feels right, There are constitutional differences from person to person that change how normal everyday status seeking feels: not everyone seeks status for the warm fuzzies, some people seek it because it makes them feel powerful, or important, or to ease their insecurity, or because they think its useful in general, or in a specific case, or because it’s normal and they do normal stuff (perhaps out of habit or an alief that normal=good, some do it to fit in, or because of explicit political calculation or etc etc obviously there are many different possible feelings I can’t think of on the spot.)
There are also some means of status seeking that should make most people feel pretty bad, E.g. picking on someone to avoid being picked on yourself, lying to make yourself look good, lying to transfer blame and punishment to someone else etc.
“The term “status” feels kinda dirty when you analyze human interaction from afar.There’s always the subtext that if you play for it, you’re a bad person.”
No there isn’t. Where would the subtext be coming from exactly? This stuff isn’t all written by status haters (I wonder if any significant proportion is) What there is is explicit discussion of stuff that is usually left implicit. Sometimes if someone feels or thinks that it’s bad that’s going to leak through in what they write but this is hardly standard or ever present. If it feels dirty, maybe they mean something else by status than you do, or maybe that’s just how you feel about it when looking from afar (or lots of other possible explanations). There’s no subtext to blame it feeling dirty on.
“It can feel like trying be comfortable talking to that girl at the grocery store.” Insofar as the word status is usefully different from “confidence” it is external. Feeling comfortable talking to someone does not get you status. Appearing to feel comfortable doing so might. The fact that being uncomfortable is uncomfortable* should really be the default explanation for someone trying to stop being uncomfortable. If I feel uncomfortable my default reaction is to try to stop feeling uncomfortable, if the discomfort isn’t more instrumentally useful than annoying , and I’m not too busy. I’m pretty sure that’s not status seeking.
“If you interact with other people at all, I can almost (not quite) guarantee that you seek status, you just don’t call it status.” The OP specifically stated that she did seek status, but that it wasn’t a terminal value.
Also why is human being used as a compliment. It seems like you’re arguing against the idea that this obviously very “human” thing (status seeking) is a bad thing. Using the word human as a compliment kind of presupposes your conclusion.
*and being uncomfortable is bad, and badness is bad, etc, etc.
“Truth” and “understanding” seem to work as applause lights in this sentence. “Status” is used to the opposite effect throughout the post.
I think you’re premise is a little confused. It sounds like you previously viewed status-seeking as the emotional equivalent of immoral, but now you don’t because you realize it has adaptational advantages. I find it strange that you feel evolutionary causation is adequate to justify something, but I guess I won’t question that.
More to the point, I think you’re misjudging status. Status isn’t as simple Machiavellian plays for power. It’s generally assumed that only sociopaths play for dominance in and of itself. The term “status” feels kinda dirty when you analyze human interaction from afar. There’s always the subtext that if you play for it, you’re a bad person. That’s not the way it feels when you’re actually talking to other people.
Seeking status can feel like trying to live up to the expectations of people you care about. It can feel like trying to stand on equal ground with your friends. It can feel like trying be comfortable talking to that girl at the grocery store.
When people look at status seeking under a microscope, they usually try to screen off the humanity of its experience and so it comes off as something a super villain would do. When you actually feel it, it feels right. It feels very human. If you interact with other people at all, I can almost (not quite) guarantee that you seek status, you just don’t call it status.
Not justify: instead, explain. I understood that previously, handoflixue felt that status was dirty, but in understanding it has come to feel that it’s just part of human nature (for most people, as the post points out).
I disagree. Justification is the act of explaining something in a way that makes it seem less dirty.
Not sure I agree; people are often asked to justify their decisions—to argue their choice was better than another, and calling those arguments an explanation feels like we’re stretching the definition of ‘explain’.
“That’s not the way it feels” “it feels right”
This is a horrible justification for anything. Doing something bad doesn’t automatically make someone feel bad. It’s an especially bad test of status-seeking’s moral status because (normal) people rarely feel bad about doing something they perceive as normal even if it’s bad. In any case it’s not true that it always feels right, There are constitutional differences from person to person that change how normal everyday status seeking feels: not everyone seeks status for the warm fuzzies, some people seek it because it makes them feel powerful, or important, or to ease their insecurity, or because they think its useful in general, or in a specific case, or because it’s normal and they do normal stuff (perhaps out of habit or an alief that normal=good, some do it to fit in, or because of explicit political calculation or etc etc obviously there are many different possible feelings I can’t think of on the spot.) There are also some means of status seeking that should make most people feel pretty bad, E.g. picking on someone to avoid being picked on yourself, lying to make yourself look good, lying to transfer blame and punishment to someone else etc.
“The term “status” feels kinda dirty when you analyze human interaction from afar.There’s always the subtext that if you play for it, you’re a bad person.”
No there isn’t. Where would the subtext be coming from exactly? This stuff isn’t all written by status haters (I wonder if any significant proportion is) What there is is explicit discussion of stuff that is usually left implicit. Sometimes if someone feels or thinks that it’s bad that’s going to leak through in what they write but this is hardly standard or ever present. If it feels dirty, maybe they mean something else by status than you do, or maybe that’s just how you feel about it when looking from afar (or lots of other possible explanations). There’s no subtext to blame it feeling dirty on.
“It can feel like trying be comfortable talking to that girl at the grocery store.” Insofar as the word status is usefully different from “confidence” it is external. Feeling comfortable talking to someone does not get you status. Appearing to feel comfortable doing so might. The fact that being uncomfortable is uncomfortable* should really be the default explanation for someone trying to stop being uncomfortable. If I feel uncomfortable my default reaction is to try to stop feeling uncomfortable, if the discomfort isn’t more instrumentally useful than annoying , and I’m not too busy. I’m pretty sure that’s not status seeking.
“If you interact with other people at all, I can almost (not quite) guarantee that you seek status, you just don’t call it status.” The OP specifically stated that she did seek status, but that it wasn’t a terminal value.
Also why is human being used as a compliment. It seems like you’re arguing against the idea that this obviously very “human” thing (status seeking) is a bad thing. Using the word human as a compliment kind of presupposes your conclusion.
*and being uncomfortable is bad, and badness is bad, etc, etc.