In the case of 2 + 3 = 5, it’s at least reasonable to wonder if math existed before humans. Physics itself seems to be made of math, and if we don’t tell a story where physics was around before humans could observe it, it’s hard to give a coherent account of how we got here.
This is wrong. Depending on how you define “math” and “physics”, of course, but Eliezer should have been more careful with his word choice if he wanted to be unambiguous.
Wikipedia says, “Mathematics is the abstract study of topics such as quantity (numbers), structure, space, and change.” “Abstract study” was not being conducted on Earth before humans existed; a fortiori, “math” did not yet exist. Next, physics. Once again, Wikipedia says, “Physics is the natural science that involves the study of matter and its motion through space and time, along with related concepts such as energy and force.” Science is a human endeavor, so, once again, a fortiori, physics did not exist before humans did.
Physics is not “made of math”. We describe physical laws using certain mathematical expressions, but to say that the laws themselves are those expressions is to confuse the map and the territory. As for giving a coherent account of how we got here, I think evolutionary biology does a fine job. In particular, it doesn’t seem to conflict with our known physical laws, given our discovery of DNA, etc. Our own discoveries in physics tell us that we should expect that atoms existed before we did! And we arose from the interactions of those atoms. No incoherence there.
This is wrong. Depending on how you define “math” and “physics”, of course, but Eliezer should have been more careful with his word choice if he wanted to be unambiguous.
Wikipedia says, “Mathematics is the abstract study of topics such as quantity (numbers), structure, space, and change.” “Abstract study” was not being conducted on Earth before humans existed; a fortiori, “math” did not yet exist. Next, physics. Once again, Wikipedia says, “Physics is the natural science that involves the study of matter and its motion through space and time, along with related concepts such as energy and force.” Science is a human endeavor, so, once again, a fortiori, physics did not exist before humans did.
Physics is not “made of math”. We describe physical laws using certain mathematical expressions, but to say that the laws themselves are those expressions is to confuse the map and the territory. As for giving a coherent account of how we got here, I think evolutionary biology does a fine job. In particular, it doesn’t seem to conflict with our known physical laws, given our discovery of DNA, etc. Our own discoveries in physics tell us that we should expect that atoms existed before we did! And we arose from the interactions of those atoms. No incoherence there.