Re: first point, yes, that’s true. “we don’t value happiness that comes from having mistaken beliefs” does not imply “we always value happiness that comes from having true beliefs”.
Re: point 2… I’m probably misunderstanding you.
Consider the following dialog:
A: “Drinking poison isn’t valuable” B: “But if I give Alice poison and she believes that it’s medicine, then she will value drinking poison” A: “Well, I suppose, but if she knew what it was, she wouldn’t” B: “But you didn’t say ‘Drinking poison might not be valuable if you know it’s poison.’ You just said ‘Drinking poison isn’t valuable.’”
I don’t mean to put words in your mouth here… if that’s not analogous what you’re saying, that’s great! I’m misunderstanding you, and hopefully we can identify and address the causes of that misunderstanding.
As it is, though, I’m at a loss for how to move forward. What I’m hearing you say is very much analogous to B’s position here, which I think is just goofy. We don’t value drinking poison, and the fact that we can be mistaken about whether we’re drinking poison or not doesn’t change that fact.
(In local parlance, this is sometimes referred to as the distinction between “desire” and “volition”… Alice might desire to drink poison in this case, but her volition is to drink medicine. I’m not crazy about that language choice, but the distinction itself is important, whatever words we use.)
“Drinking poison” is an action with clear and unambiguous consequences. “Happiness” is a personal emotional state. I don’t feel the analogy works well.
Consider someone looking at his newborn daughter and feeling great happiness that she is the best, prettiest, most awesome child in the world. Oh, hey, that’s technically a mistaken belief, the happiness is not valuable!
Consider a medieval European society where life is nasty, brutal, and short, not to mention muddy and itchy. But on Sundays you go to the cathedral, a beautiful building with awe-inspiring stained glass windows and open your heart to unconditional love, forgiveness, and promise of eternal happiness. It makes life worth living—but, sorry, that’s not valuable, your beliefs are wrong even though you don’t really have a choice about them (remember, medieval Europe).
I think ultimately what ticked me off was the readiness to judge the value of other people’s subjective emotional experiences. I am not a fan of such approaches.
Re: first point, yes, that’s true. “we don’t value happiness that comes from having mistaken beliefs” does not imply “we always value happiness that comes from having true beliefs”.
Re: point 2… I’m probably misunderstanding you.
Consider the following dialog: A: “Drinking poison isn’t valuable”
B: “But if I give Alice poison and she believes that it’s medicine, then she will value drinking poison”
A: “Well, I suppose, but if she knew what it was, she wouldn’t”
B: “But you didn’t say ‘Drinking poison might not be valuable if you know it’s poison.’ You just said ‘Drinking poison isn’t valuable.’”
I don’t mean to put words in your mouth here… if that’s not analogous what you’re saying, that’s great! I’m misunderstanding you, and hopefully we can identify and address the causes of that misunderstanding.
As it is, though, I’m at a loss for how to move forward. What I’m hearing you say is very much analogous to B’s position here, which I think is just goofy. We don’t value drinking poison, and the fact that we can be mistaken about whether we’re drinking poison or not doesn’t change that fact.
(In local parlance, this is sometimes referred to as the distinction between “desire” and “volition”… Alice might desire to drink poison in this case, but her volition is to drink medicine. I’m not crazy about that language choice, but the distinction itself is important, whatever words we use.)
“Drinking poison” is an action with clear and unambiguous consequences. “Happiness” is a personal emotional state. I don’t feel the analogy works well.
Consider someone looking at his newborn daughter and feeling great happiness that she is the best, prettiest, most awesome child in the world. Oh, hey, that’s technically a mistaken belief, the happiness is not valuable!
Consider a medieval European society where life is nasty, brutal, and short, not to mention muddy and itchy. But on Sundays you go to the cathedral, a beautiful building with awe-inspiring stained glass windows and open your heart to unconditional love, forgiveness, and promise of eternal happiness. It makes life worth living—but, sorry, that’s not valuable, your beliefs are wrong even though you don’t really have a choice about them (remember, medieval Europe).
I think ultimately what ticked me off was the readiness to judge the value of other people’s subjective emotional experiences. I am not a fan of such approaches.
OK, I think I now understand your position. Thanks for clarifying.