Is it just me, or has the LW community gone overboard with the “include a TLDR” advice? There’s something to be said for clear thesis statements, but there are other perfectly legitimate ways to structure an article, including “begin with an example that hooks your reader’s interest” (which is also standard advice, btw), as well as “[here is the thing I am responding to] [response]” (what I used in this article). If the sequences were written today, I suspect the comments would be full of TLDR complaints.
If the sequences were written today, I suspect the comments would be full of TLDR complaints.
Eliezer is very good at writing engrossing posts, which are as entertaining to read as some of the best novels. His posts are in no need of TLDR. The only other common posters here who seem to have that skill are Yvain and (sometimes almost) Alicorn. For pretty much everyone else, TLDR helps.
Yvain is an amazing writer, one of the very few people for whom I will read everything they write just because of who the author is. (In general, I read only a fraction of the stories in my feed reader.)
I wouldn’t put Eliezer in that category, though. I started reading Overcoming Bias sometime around the zombie sequence, but I didn’t read every post at first. I’m pretty sure I skipped almost the entire quantum mechanics sequence, because it seemed too dense. I only went through and read the entirety of the sequences more recently because (1) I was really interested in the subjects covered and (2) I wanted to be on the same page as other LW readers.
Part of why “TLDR” annoys me, I think, is that often what it really signals is lack of personal interest in the post. But of course not everyone finds every post equally interesting. If someone read the beginning of this post and though, “oh, this is about Eliezer’s metaethics. Eh, whatever, don’t care enough about the topic to read it,” well good for them! I don’t expect every LW reader to want to read every post I write.
You’re right, the quantum mechanics sequence was pretty dense. Pretty much all of the other stuff, though? I mean, I read through the entirety of the OB archive up to 2009, and then all of Eliezer’s posts from then until 2011 or so, and not once did I ever find myself going “nope, too boring, don’t care”, the way I do with most other posts on here. (Sorry, other posters.) Some of them (a small percentage) took a bit effort to get through, but I was willing to put in that effort because the material was so damn interesting and presented in such a way that it just absolutely fascinated me. (This includes the QM sequence, note!)
But different people may have different preferences w.r.t. writing styles. That aside, you should not confuse interest (or lack thereof) in a topic with interest in a post. Plenty of posts here are written about topics I care about, but the way they’re written makes me close the page and never come back. I just don’t have infinite time to read things, and so I will prioritize those things that are written clearly and engagingly, both because it gives me enjoyment to read such, and because good and clear writing strongly signals that the author really has a strong grasp of the concepts, strong enough to teach me new things and new views, to make things click in my head. That’s what I got from many, many posts in the Sequences.
Maybe I overgeneralized this TLDR pattern but then it is no bad advice and a) I indeed find it lacking a thread and b) I provided a summary which you might or might not use.
Is it just me, or has the LW community gone overboard with the “include a TLDR” advice? There’s something to be said for clear thesis statements, but there are other perfectly legitimate ways to structure an article, including “begin with an example that hooks your reader’s interest” (which is also standard advice, btw), as well as “[here is the thing I am responding to] [response]” (what I used in this article). If the sequences were written today, I suspect the comments would be full of TLDR complaints.
Eliezer is very good at writing engrossing posts, which are as entertaining to read as some of the best novels. His posts are in no need of TLDR. The only other common posters here who seem to have that skill are Yvain and (sometimes almost) Alicorn. For pretty much everyone else, TLDR helps.
Yvain is an amazing writer, one of the very few people for whom I will read everything they write just because of who the author is. (In general, I read only a fraction of the stories in my feed reader.)
I wouldn’t put Eliezer in that category, though. I started reading Overcoming Bias sometime around the zombie sequence, but I didn’t read every post at first. I’m pretty sure I skipped almost the entire quantum mechanics sequence, because it seemed too dense. I only went through and read the entirety of the sequences more recently because (1) I was really interested in the subjects covered and (2) I wanted to be on the same page as other LW readers.
Part of why “TLDR” annoys me, I think, is that often what it really signals is lack of personal interest in the post. But of course not everyone finds every post equally interesting. If someone read the beginning of this post and though, “oh, this is about Eliezer’s metaethics. Eh, whatever, don’t care enough about the topic to read it,” well good for them! I don’t expect every LW reader to want to read every post I write.
You’re right, the quantum mechanics sequence was pretty dense. Pretty much all of the other stuff, though? I mean, I read through the entirety of the OB archive up to 2009, and then all of Eliezer’s posts from then until 2011 or so, and not once did I ever find myself going “nope, too boring, don’t care”, the way I do with most other posts on here. (Sorry, other posters.) Some of them (a small percentage) took a bit effort to get through, but I was willing to put in that effort because the material was so damn interesting and presented in such a way that it just absolutely fascinated me. (This includes the QM sequence, note!)
But different people may have different preferences w.r.t. writing styles. That aside, you should not confuse interest (or lack thereof) in a topic with interest in a post. Plenty of posts here are written about topics I care about, but the way they’re written makes me close the page and never come back. I just don’t have infinite time to read things, and so I will prioritize those things that are written clearly and engagingly, both because it gives me enjoyment to read such, and because good and clear writing strongly signals that the author really has a strong grasp of the concepts, strong enough to teach me new things and new views, to make things click in my head. That’s what I got from many, many posts in the Sequences.
Maybe I overgeneralized this TLDR pattern but then it is no bad advice and a) I indeed find it lacking a thread and b) I provided a summary which you might or might not use.