But as you point out, there are several problems with this. That’s the tricky thing about education: it’s supposed to do everything, so any change will always make it worse on some axis. Which makes it very easy for someone who defends the status quo to always kill the discussion (not you).
I don’t know what to do with the fact that society is fractured, and that many people live in destructive subcultures, and that democracy functions better when there is some mutual understanding between subcultures. But I feel this is a problem that has very little to do with knowledge reproduction, and we would do well in separating the two problems. Maybe something school-like, that is, some institution that forces people to rub shoulders, is good for society, though it is not good for learning. If we aim to solve that problem separately, I think we can design a better solution than if we bundle it with education. For one thing, it is not a problem that is limited to children, so a solution to the socialization problem would need to span all age groups.
And on flexibility and specialization: isn’t everything domain-specific? Since we very rarely see people apply knowledge outside of the domain it was acquired, is it really valuable to train generalists? Or is that more what you become if you hop domain a bunch of times? But I do recognize the problem that the feedback on usefulness can be too slow for certain skills, so there needs to be systems and incentives in place that help the spread of those.
it’s supposed to do everything, so any change will always make it worse on some axis.
100% this.
It seems like a possible solution could be to decouple some of those functions. For example, there is in my opinion no good reason why the institution that provides education should be the same as the institution that provides certificates. Even if both institutions are government-organized, if you separate them, you fix the problem with grade inflation (teachers give students better grades, to avoid conflicts with parents).
But the political advantage of “everything under the same hood” is that you do not need to talk these things explicitly; you can just pretend that they are inseparable parts of “education”. If you instead made a separate institution for teaching, separate institution for certification… and a separate institution for socialization (assuming that such thing is even possible), there would probably be a lot of opposition against the “socialization institution”, because the mainstream families would see it (correctly) as a waste of time, and the abusive minorities would see it (correctly) as a tool used against their values. And the government would no longer have the “but education! you really need it to get a job” excuse.
Since we very rarely see people apply knowledge outside of the domain it was acquired, is it really valuable to train generalists?
I think it is good when people can reason outside their profession. Like, consider this COVID-19 situation: how better it would be if people understood how viruses and vaccines work… and how much worse it would be if most people (anyone who is not a doctor or a biologist by profession) believed that even the very concepts of “virus” and “vaccine” are hoaxes.
It’s like there are two reasons why knowledge is good: the knowledge that is good for you, and the knowledge that is good for your neighbors. If you get sick, it is not just your problem, it has an impact on others. (Even outside of pandemics, you generally want people to wash their hands, not go to work sick, etc.) In democracy, you are supposed to vote on all kinds of topics; it is good if your model of the world in general is not completely stupid, otherwise you will vote for stupid politicians who propose stupid ideas.
But of course there is a question of how much general education is actually useful. In my opinion, I would skip culture (it is mostly used as a status symbol anyway), and probably focus on practical topics instead. For example, I believe it could improve health of general population a lot if people knew how to cook healthy meals. -- But of course, everyone has their own opinion, and mine would probably be too low-status.
I guess I’m between b and c.
But as you point out, there are several problems with this. That’s the tricky thing about education: it’s supposed to do everything, so any change will always make it worse on some axis. Which makes it very easy for someone who defends the status quo to always kill the discussion (not you).
I don’t know what to do with the fact that society is fractured, and that many people live in destructive subcultures, and that democracy functions better when there is some mutual understanding between subcultures. But I feel this is a problem that has very little to do with knowledge reproduction, and we would do well in separating the two problems. Maybe something school-like, that is, some institution that forces people to rub shoulders, is good for society, though it is not good for learning. If we aim to solve that problem separately, I think we can design a better solution than if we bundle it with education. For one thing, it is not a problem that is limited to children, so a solution to the socialization problem would need to span all age groups.
And on flexibility and specialization: isn’t everything domain-specific? Since we very rarely see people apply knowledge outside of the domain it was acquired, is it really valuable to train generalists? Or is that more what you become if you hop domain a bunch of times? But I do recognize the problem that the feedback on usefulness can be too slow for certain skills, so there needs to be systems and incentives in place that help the spread of those.
100% this.
It seems like a possible solution could be to decouple some of those functions. For example, there is in my opinion no good reason why the institution that provides education should be the same as the institution that provides certificates. Even if both institutions are government-organized, if you separate them, you fix the problem with grade inflation (teachers give students better grades, to avoid conflicts with parents).
But the political advantage of “everything under the same hood” is that you do not need to talk these things explicitly; you can just pretend that they are inseparable parts of “education”. If you instead made a separate institution for teaching, separate institution for certification… and a separate institution for socialization (assuming that such thing is even possible), there would probably be a lot of opposition against the “socialization institution”, because the mainstream families would see it (correctly) as a waste of time, and the abusive minorities would see it (correctly) as a tool used against their values. And the government would no longer have the “but education! you really need it to get a job” excuse.
I think it is good when people can reason outside their profession. Like, consider this COVID-19 situation: how better it would be if people understood how viruses and vaccines work… and how much worse it would be if most people (anyone who is not a doctor or a biologist by profession) believed that even the very concepts of “virus” and “vaccine” are hoaxes.
It’s like there are two reasons why knowledge is good: the knowledge that is good for you, and the knowledge that is good for your neighbors. If you get sick, it is not just your problem, it has an impact on others. (Even outside of pandemics, you generally want people to wash their hands, not go to work sick, etc.) In democracy, you are supposed to vote on all kinds of topics; it is good if your model of the world in general is not completely stupid, otherwise you will vote for stupid politicians who propose stupid ideas.
But of course there is a question of how much general education is actually useful. In my opinion, I would skip culture (it is mostly used as a status symbol anyway), and probably focus on practical topics instead. For example, I believe it could improve health of general population a lot if people knew how to cook healthy meals. -- But of course, everyone has their own opinion, and mine would probably be too low-status.