You can get by in Berlin without knowing German and I know people who do. Of course there are costs to not being able to speak German but Berlin might be one of the cities outside of countries where English is the official languages where you can get farthest without English.
Walkability (/ bikeability / public transit)
Walkability in Berlin is good. We are Of course for walkability to work for a community it’s necessary for the community to live in the same part of the city.
Berkeley has fiber internet, 2-day Amazon delivery, a myriad of quick restaurant and grocery delivery options, and excellent coverage by Lyft, Uber, and bikeshares. I expect many would be reluctant to give up this level of convenience. This is a strike against private islands, remote castles, and developing countries, among others.
2-day Amazon delievery seems really strange to be listed as a benefit.
Amazon currently tells me about how I get free same day delivery for a bunch of items with prime. There’s next day delievery to remote castles in Germany with Amazon.
Berlin has great internet and Uber (and other companies like FreeNow) and bikeshares.
Cost of living index in Berlin is 30.66% lower than in New York.
Rent in Berlin is, on average, 66.50% lower than in New York.
General infrastructure
We have all the basic infrastructure things. We have parks and forest in the city as well as lakes.
Occupancy laws
As long as you tell the government who lives in the flat, the government is happy. Having people who are not offiically registered also usually isn’t a problem but German citizens have to officially register their home.
Local political environment / culture
Berlin’s culture is very accepting of all sorts of different people and might be the city that’s most accepting of people being different. I don’t the cultural problems that the Bay Area has of late exist here in a way that I come into contact with them.
I do grant that Berlin is not known for ambition.
There’s little chance for meaningful unrest.
Medical care
Berlin has good research hospitals and a lot of different doctors. Germanies medical insurance is easily accessible.
Crime
Berlin has a higher safety index then Berkely. While Berkely is at 37.49, Berlin is at 59.18. Problem violent crimes such as assault and armed robbery is also happens less in Berlin
Weather
No serious natural disasters or extreme weather. The worst are storm where it makes sense to stay inside for a few hours.
We do have winters.
Jobs
We have a local startup scene and both Amazon and Google employ programmers in Berlin.
Upvoted, I would like to see Berlin considered more strongly. Having lived there for two years, I think it’s hard to overestimate how high the quality of living in Berlin is, not just in the easily verifiable ways listed above, but also in more subtle ways. E.g., in addition to being much cheaper, restaurants/cuisine just generally seems higher quality compared to many other places. German housing is much better than UK/US housing in ways that seem hard to appreciate for people who haven’t lived in both locations, etc.
Edit: To clarify, I don’t want to suggest Berlin as the one single best rationalist hub, but as one of the global top 5.
To add some downsides:
The language barrier is still a bit of an issue if you care about making friends outside the rationalist community
The airports are among the worst in the world Not true anymore (finally)
One of the biggest downsides from my perspective of moving out of the U.S. and the Bay Area in particular is drastically lower salaries in many industries, in particular software engineering. My guess is most software engineers we know would literally be looking at 70% pay reductions (as in make 30% of what they previously made). I think this is a strong enough reason that I would be very hesitant to move to Berlin long-term, and I think would reduce surplus income of individuals by something like 50%, which I think is a really big deal.
I mean, most of the people I know live pretty frugally, which means that those differences don’t matter that much. Housing for people in group houses in Berkeley only costs about $12k a year, so you can’t save that much on that. In addition there are also much higher tax rates. Having done the calculations, I actually expect discretionary income to go down by more something like 75%, because you also pay a lot more in taxes.
The language barrier is still a bit of an issue if you care about making friends outside the rationalist community
I live in Berlin and do have nonrationalist friends with whom I mainly speak English. There are plenty of English-speaking events where people can find friends with whom to talk English.
I recently asked a person I meet about what issues she has with living in Berlin without knowing German and her main complaint was that it’s hard to interact with the government as that requires someone to translate for them.
Raising a family would likely also require learning some German.
I know of some EAs who lived in Berlin and found it very difficult to make friends due to the language barriers, and some EAs who had an experience more similar to yours.
On the positive side—there is a sizeable cluster of alternative schools in and around Berlin—including forest schools, free/democratic schools, Montessori/Waldorf etc.
If it will be a big community—would it be legal to organize some kind of private mini school? Something like Elon made for his kids—it could be better than homeschooling and regular private school both.
Case for Berlin ( I will add to it):
You can get by in Berlin without knowing German and I know people who do. Of course there are costs to not being able to speak German but Berlin might be one of the cities outside of countries where English is the official languages where you can get farthest without English.
Walkability in Berlin is good. We are Of course for walkability to work for a community it’s necessary for the community to live in the same part of the city.
2-day Amazon delievery seems really strange to be listed as a benefit.
Amazon currently tells me about how I get free same day delivery for a bunch of items with prime. There’s next day delievery to remote castles in Germany with Amazon.
Berlin has great internet and Uber (and other companies like FreeNow) and bikeshares.
From numbeo:
Cost of living index in Berlin is 30.66% lower than in New York.
Rent in Berlin is, on average, 66.50% lower than in New York.
We have all the basic infrastructure things. We have parks and forest in the city as well as lakes.
As long as you tell the government who lives in the flat, the government is happy. Having people who are not offiically registered also usually isn’t a problem but German citizens have to officially register their home.
Berlin’s culture is very accepting of all sorts of different people and might be the city that’s most accepting of people being different. I don’t the cultural problems that the Bay Area has of late exist here in a way that I come into contact with them.
I do grant that Berlin is not known for ambition.
There’s little chance for meaningful unrest.
Berlin has good research hospitals and a lot of different doctors. Germanies medical insurance is easily accessible.
Berlin has a higher safety index then Berkely. While Berkely is at 37.49, Berlin is at 59.18. Problem violent crimes such as assault and armed robbery is also happens less in Berlin
No serious natural disasters or extreme weather. The worst are storm where it makes sense to stay inside for a few hours.
We do have winters.
We have a local startup scene and both Amazon and Google employ programmers in Berlin.
Upvoted, I would like to see Berlin considered more strongly. Having lived there for two years, I think it’s hard to overestimate how high the quality of living in Berlin is, not just in the easily verifiable ways listed above, but also in more subtle ways. E.g., in addition to being much cheaper, restaurants/cuisine just generally seems higher quality compared to many other places. German housing is much better than UK/US housing in ways that seem hard to appreciate for people who haven’t lived in both locations, etc.
Edit: To clarify, I don’t want to suggest Berlin as the one single best rationalist hub, but as one of the global top 5.
To add some downsides:
The language barrier is still a bit of an issue if you care about making friends outside the rationalist community
The airports are among the worst in the worldNot true anymore (finally)One of the biggest downsides from my perspective of moving out of the U.S. and the Bay Area in particular is drastically lower salaries in many industries, in particular software engineering. My guess is most software engineers we know would literally be looking at 70% pay reductions (as in make 30% of what they previously made). I think this is a strong enough reason that I would be very hesitant to move to Berlin long-term, and I think would reduce surplus income of individuals by something like 50%, which I think is a really big deal.
Yeah. Adjusting for cost of living and purchasing power, it would be (much?) less, but still a good reason against moving.
I mean, most of the people I know live pretty frugally, which means that those differences don’t matter that much. Housing for people in group houses in Berkeley only costs about $12k a year, so you can’t save that much on that. In addition there are also much higher tax rates. Having done the calculations, I actually expect discretionary income to go down by more something like 75%, because you also pay a lot more in taxes.
Yeah, that seems very plausible for frugal people who don’t pay much rent, don’t eat out that often, etc. and updates me against Berlin
I live in Berlin and do have nonrationalist friends with whom I mainly speak English. There are plenty of English-speaking events where people can find friends with whom to talk English.
I recently asked a person I meet about what issues she has with living in Berlin without knowing German and her main complaint was that it’s hard to interact with the government as that requires someone to translate for them.
Raising a family would likely also require learning some German.
Our new one is finally ready :)
I know of some EAs who lived in Berlin and found it very difficult to make friends due to the language barriers, and some EAs who had an experience more similar to yours.
What about homeschooling? Many people within the community plan to homeschool their children, yet a quick google search indicates that homeschooling is illegal in all of Germany and you will be arrested if you attempt to do so.
On the positive side—there is a sizeable cluster of alternative schools in and around Berlin—including forest schools, free/democratic schools, Montessori/Waldorf etc.
FYI I think your second link is broken.
Fixed, thanks.
If it will be a big community—would it be legal to organize some kind of private mini school? Something like Elon made for his kids—it could be better than homeschooling and regular private school both.