The Santa deception as a whole might be neutral, but don’t let anybody get away with saying “presents iff you believe”. That aspect is irredeemably evil.
Yet also a valuable lesson in status, signalling and courtiership. Human behavior is evil like that. DHTP;HTG.
I am of the mind that status, signalling, courtiership, and most other sociocultural systems like them should be taught as game rules, to be played as a game, and to be gamed if at all possible. Threats like “believe or we’ll take away your presents” should be introduced only on the explicit understanding that it’s part of a game, and only then should the children be taught that most people don’t know they’re playing a game, and even more consider that failing to pretend it’s real is an infraction punishable under the rules of the game. Otherwise you run the risk of actually believing that belief gets you presents, and you run the risk of suffering real emotional damage and responding badly when someone steals your status.
Most people are able to learn social rules without having things declared explicitly. Yes, it sucks for those of us who learn best when they understand what is going on abstractly. We would get a massive advantages if we could get everything declared explicitly. Yet there are others who actually learn these things better when the game isn’t made open. They can maintain the whole internal plausible deniability thing.
Is the act of the parents—that of going along with cultural norms of faux-deceit—still evil if it actually makes their children better able to succeed socially? Where does the ‘evil’ lie? In what the parents do, the DNA of humanity or maybe even in the abstract nature of competition?
Is the act of the parents—that of going along with cultural norms of faux-deceit—still evil if it actually makes their children better able to succeed socially? Where does the ‘evil’ lie?
Yes. Other-optimising and deliberately changing someone’s map so that it doesn’t reflect the territory are hard to make a case for. “Cultural norms” is not such a case. I am not convinced there are people who actually learn how to play better when they don’t know the rules of the game.
I am not convinced there are people who actually learn how to play better when they don’t know the rules of the game.
Assuming your position holds given the language I used as well as with your framing then we have an unambiguous disagreement in matter of fact. If you see things the way they actually are you have to lie. People are just not that good at double talk. I will not begrudge those who work best at navigating a world of bullshit by immersing themselves in it the opportunity to play to their strengths.
I am pretty sure we do disagree. Just to be sure, I don’t hold that nobody can learn how to function well in society without the rules being made explicit; but that everyone would do better when given the rules to interpret the experience as a game.
Yet also a valuable lesson in status, signalling and courtiership. Human behavior is evil like that. DHTP;HTG.
I am of the mind that status, signalling, courtiership, and most other sociocultural systems like them should be taught as game rules, to be played as a game, and to be gamed if at all possible. Threats like “believe or we’ll take away your presents” should be introduced only on the explicit understanding that it’s part of a game, and only then should the children be taught that most people don’t know they’re playing a game, and even more consider that failing to pretend it’s real is an infraction punishable under the rules of the game. Otherwise you run the risk of actually believing that belief gets you presents, and you run the risk of suffering real emotional damage and responding badly when someone steals your status.
Most people are able to learn social rules without having things declared explicitly. Yes, it sucks for those of us who learn best when they understand what is going on abstractly. We would get a massive advantages if we could get everything declared explicitly. Yet there are others who actually learn these things better when the game isn’t made open. They can maintain the whole internal plausible deniability thing.
Is the act of the parents—that of going along with cultural norms of faux-deceit—still evil if it actually makes their children better able to succeed socially? Where does the ‘evil’ lie? In what the parents do, the DNA of humanity or maybe even in the abstract nature of competition?
Yes. Other-optimising and deliberately changing someone’s map so that it doesn’t reflect the territory are hard to make a case for. “Cultural norms” is not such a case. I am not convinced there are people who actually learn how to play better when they don’t know the rules of the game.
Assuming your position holds given the language I used as well as with your framing then we have an unambiguous disagreement in matter of fact. If you see things the way they actually are you have to lie. People are just not that good at double talk. I will not begrudge those who work best at navigating a world of bullshit by immersing themselves in it the opportunity to play to their strengths.
I am pretty sure we do disagree. Just to be sure, I don’t hold that nobody can learn how to function well in society without the rules being made explicit; but that everyone would do better when given the rules to interpret the experience as a game.
We do. Ironically I consider your position just one more ideal that can be helpful to believe for game purposes despite being inaccurate.