Thanks for the link but it still doesn’t make sense to me (I’ve tried to understand what this qualia thing a few times before and I am still baffled about what it is and why everyone other than me thinks it’s real).
I can’t find the source but I recall reading the following interesting point: different people might possess different degrees of qualia, perhaps ranging down to none, and that perhaps some or all of the debate could be explained by this fact. So maybe it’s just your brain. You’ve read the qualia wikipedia article I assume? It’s a pretty obvious concept for most people- whether or not it is ‘real’. Perhaps you recall wondering as a child if when other people saw something green they saw the same color you did: “Maybe what you see when you look at things called ‘green’ is what I see when I look at things called ‘orange’. How would we know?‘” The aspect of color that cannot be communicated and generates this worry is the qualia of ‘greenness’,
Yeah. Except you’re not the physically impossible kind since you’re actually reporting your lack of qualia- and I’m not sure you actually lack qualia entirely- it’s just very weak in you. +1 For Less Wrong neurodiversity. Would you be offended if I prodded you with questions about how you think? (Heck, I sort of think you should just start a discussion post called “I’m a zombie AMA”.)
Yes quite happy to answering anything. In fact I sort of preemptively started already! I don’t think I’m knowledgeable enough to make an AMA worthwhile for the people asking though.
If I get to anything too private, feel free to tell me to frack off.
Do you know your IQ? Have you been diagnosed with any condition listed in the DSM?
Are there any cognitive tasks that you find yourself notably worse than average (especially compared to those with similar IQs)? What about tasks that you find yourself to be notably better than average?
Can you got into detail about this:
I’ve known some people in that past with (much weaker) versions of this sort of visualization you describe. I tried to construct some games/experiments in which they decisively beat me/performed better than me by using these powers but I didn’t manage to build any.
What games/experiments?
Would you say you have a good sense of humor? Can you reliably read someone’s emotions from non-verbal cues? Do you have empathy for others that are suffering? Does music evoke emotions in you? Ever been in love?
Let’s say you are in a situation which could lead to either excitement or anxiety. When you learn that you are anxious and not excited does that information just come to you verbally? Do you read physical signs of your body? For most people the way we know whether we are excited or anxious is that these emotions feel different- their qualia are different (or at least that is how we report learning about our emotional state… I’m not entirely sure that story is right).
Let’s say you are in a situation which could lead to either excitement or anxiety. When you learn that you are anxious and not excited does that information just come to you verbally? Do you read physical signs of your body? For most people the way we know whether we are excited or anxious is that these emotions feel different- their qualia are different (or at least that is how we report learning about our emotional state… I’m not entirely sure that story is right).
Is this a good zombie test? I have to consciously search my body for hints to tell those apart.
Me being a zombie actually does seem like the most likely explanation right now!
Well, “the philosophical zombie is a hypothetical person whose behavior is indistinguishable from an ordinary person, but who lacks conscious experience.” That’s nonsensical, but you could however lack conscious experience while acting differently, e.g. not being able to comprehend the concept of qualia.
By the way, I’d be interested in your opinion on my comment here, are you able to deliberately cause dream-like, simulated sensory experiences that do not correlate with the outside world?
I am able to simulate sensory input, i.e. dream deliberately, enter my personal Matrix (Holodeck). I can see, hear, feel and smell without the presence of light, sound, tactile or olfactory sensory input. That is, I do not need to undergo certain conditions to consciously experience them. They do not have to happen live, I can imagine them, simulate them. I can replay previous and create new sensory experiences in my mind, i.e. perceive them with my minds eye. I can pursue and experience activities inside my head without any environmental circumstances, i.e. all I need is my body. I can walk through a park, see and hear children playing, feel and smell the air, while being weightlessness in a totally dark and quiet zero gravity environment. Can you do that?
Maybe it’s better to start from obvious things. Color experience, for example. Can you tell which light of traffic lights is illuminated while you are not using position of light and you aren’t asking himself which color it is? Is there something in your perception of different lights that allows you to tell that they are different?
The cones in the eye detect three different aspects of light (redness, greenness, blueness) and these are sent to the brain in three different fibers. By this mechanism we see there’s nothing magic going on in telling the difference between two colors. I guess the rods (which detect variation in brightness) are more relevant to the question of which light is on though.
I doubt that you think about rods and cones when you are deciding if it’s safe to cross the road. The question is: is there something in your perception of illuminated traffic light, that allows you to say that it is red or green or yellow? Or maybe you just know that it is green or yellow, but you can’t see any differences but position and luminosity?
I don’t understand what the question is getting at. You’re right that I don’t think about cones when I check which color a light is, but this is the mechanism by which it enters my brain: since different lights enter my brain in different ways it is no surprise I can differentiate between them.
I don’t understand what the question is getting at.
I am getting there. There’s a phenomenon called blindsight type 1. Try to imagine that you have “color blindsight”, i.e. you can’t differentiate between colors, but you can guess above chance what color it is. In this condition you lack qualia of colors.
Not to be dismissive of a chunk of philosophy, but your post is akin to “I’ve tried to understand elan vital, but I keep running into problems integrating it with my biology course”.
Even the most strident eliminative materialists understand what is meant by qualia. You don’t have to integrate a concept into your theory to understand what it means.
Thanks for the link but it still doesn’t make sense to me (I’ve tried to understand what this qualia thing a few times before and I am still baffled about what it is and why everyone other than me thinks it’s real).
I can’t find the source but I recall reading the following interesting point: different people might possess different degrees of qualia, perhaps ranging down to none, and that perhaps some or all of the debate could be explained by this fact. So maybe it’s just your brain. You’ve read the qualia wikipedia article I assume? It’s a pretty obvious concept for most people- whether or not it is ‘real’. Perhaps you recall wondering as a child if when other people saw something green they saw the same color you did: “Maybe what you see when you look at things called ‘green’ is what I see when I look at things called ‘orange’. How would we know?‘” The aspect of color that cannot be communicated and generates this worry is the qualia of ‘greenness’,
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Yeah. Except you’re not the physically impossible kind since you’re actually reporting your lack of qualia- and I’m not sure you actually lack qualia entirely- it’s just very weak in you. +1 For Less Wrong neurodiversity. Would you be offended if I prodded you with questions about how you think? (Heck, I sort of think you should just start a discussion post called “I’m a zombie AMA”.)
Yes quite happy to answering anything. In fact I sort of preemptively started already! I don’t think I’m knowledgeable enough to make an AMA worthwhile for the people asking though.
If I get to anything too private, feel free to tell me to frack off.
Do you know your IQ? Have you been diagnosed with any condition listed in the DSM?
Are there any cognitive tasks that you find yourself notably worse than average (especially compared to those with similar IQs)? What about tasks that you find yourself to be notably better than average?
Can you got into detail about this:
What games/experiments?
Would you say you have a good sense of humor? Can you reliably read someone’s emotions from non-verbal cues? Do you have empathy for others that are suffering? Does music evoke emotions in you? Ever been in love?
Let’s say you are in a situation which could lead to either excitement or anxiety. When you learn that you are anxious and not excited does that information just come to you verbally? Do you read physical signs of your body? For most people the way we know whether we are excited or anxious is that these emotions feel different- their qualia are different (or at least that is how we report learning about our emotional state… I’m not entirely sure that story is right).
-
Is this a good zombie test? I have to consciously search my body for hints to tell those apart.
No idea, never interviewed a zombie before. I’m not especially confident I have yet. It certainly might be overly-sensitive.
OK I think it is an OK test but you might get false positives from that alone.
Well, “the philosophical zombie is a hypothetical person whose behavior is indistinguishable from an ordinary person, but who lacks conscious experience.” That’s nonsensical, but you could however lack conscious experience while acting differently, e.g. not being able to comprehend the concept of qualia.
Excellent point.
By the way, I’d be interested in your opinion on my comment here, are you able to deliberately cause dream-like, simulated sensory experiences that do not correlate with the outside world?
I am able to simulate sensory input, i.e. dream deliberately, enter my personal Matrix (Holodeck). I can see, hear, feel and smell without the presence of light, sound, tactile or olfactory sensory input. That is, I do not need to undergo certain conditions to consciously experience them. They do not have to happen live, I can imagine them, simulate them. I can replay previous and create new sensory experiences in my mind, i.e. perceive them with my minds eye. I can pursue and experience activities inside my head without any environmental circumstances, i.e. all I need is my body. I can walk through a park, see and hear children playing, feel and smell the air, while being weightlessness in a totally dark and quiet zero gravity environment. Can you do that?
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Maybe it’s better to start from obvious things. Color experience, for example. Can you tell which light of traffic lights is illuminated while you are not using position of light and you aren’t asking himself which color it is? Is there something in your perception of different lights that allows you to tell that they are different?
The cones in the eye detect three different aspects of light (redness, greenness, blueness) and these are sent to the brain in three different fibers. By this mechanism we see there’s nothing magic going on in telling the difference between two colors. I guess the rods (which detect variation in brightness) are more relevant to the question of which light is on though.
I doubt that you think about rods and cones when you are deciding if it’s safe to cross the road. The question is: is there something in your perception of illuminated traffic light, that allows you to say that it is red or green or yellow? Or maybe you just know that it is green or yellow, but you can’t see any differences but position and luminosity?
I don’t understand what the question is getting at. You’re right that I don’t think about cones when I check which color a light is, but this is the mechanism by which it enters my brain: since different lights enter my brain in different ways it is no surprise I can differentiate between them.
I am getting there. There’s a phenomenon called blindsight type 1. Try to imagine that you have “color blindsight”, i.e. you can’t differentiate between colors, but you can guess above chance what color it is. In this condition you lack qualia of colors.
Not to be dismissive of a chunk of philosophy, but your post is akin to “I’ve tried to understand elan vital, but I keep running into problems integrating it with my biology course”.
Materialists should be able to answer “why do people think they have qualia” without it being a mystery.
Even the most strident eliminative materialists understand what is meant by qualia. You don’t have to integrate a concept into your theory to understand what it means.