I think it’s quite unlikely for this ritual to become tied to the group’s identity, let alone define the group. There are a lot of people strongly involved in the community who don’t participate (as Yvain said), and a number of people who explicitly voice objections against it. Also, the event only happens once a year, there’s nothing as pervasive as e.g. a ritual component in every meetup, so the influence on the whole group’s mentality is probably minimal.
Not only is there no longer anywhere near the same possibility of saying “eh, on second thought, forget that, let’s do something else”
I agree that this is likely to happen, since holding the ritual and organizing “something else” are not mutually exclusive. Are you also concerned about opportunity cost?
I think it’s quite unlikely for this ritual to become tied to the group’s identity, let alone define the group.
What?! The winter solstice ritual is already tied to the OB/LW NYC group’s identity — or at least it very much seems that way from the outside, and it certainly looks like (at least some of) the group’s members are actively working to both make that be the case, and to promote that image of the event to the rest of LW.
Sorry, I misunderstood, I do agree that the ritual is connected to the group identity. Do you expect it to have significant effects on the LW group identity besides increasing the sense of community?
I think that opting out of a component of the group identity doesn’t necessarily lead to alienation. For example, caring about FAI is a significant part of the LW group identity, but people who care about FAI much less than, say, building rationality skills (like myself) are still welcome and included.
they’re now abstaining from something which defines the group, and therefore mark themselves as Not Part Of The Group.
Do you mean signaling that you’re not part of the group, or feeling that you’re not part of the group, or both?
I think that opting out of a component of the group identity doesn’t necessarily lead to alienation.
This is true, but a ritual designed explicitly as a group-bonding exercise (and, it seems, the most prominent such exercise) is more likely to be something opting out of which contributes to alienation than, say, caring about FAI.
Do you mean signaling that you’re not part of the group, or feeling that you’re not part of the group, or both?
Both. Although I didn’t so much mean “signaling that you’re not part of the group” as “doing something which is interpreted by other group members as an indication that you’re not part of the group”, but the difference is of emphasis at best.
I think it’s quite unlikely for this ritual to become tied to the group’s identity, let alone define the group. There are a lot of people strongly involved in the community who don’t participate (as Yvain said), and a number of people who explicitly voice objections against it. Also, the event only happens once a year, there’s nothing as pervasive as e.g. a ritual component in every meetup, so the influence on the whole group’s mentality is probably minimal.
I agree that this is likely to happen, since holding the ritual and organizing “something else” are not mutually exclusive. Are you also concerned about opportunity cost?
What?! The winter solstice ritual is already tied to the OB/LW NYC group’s identity — or at least it very much seems that way from the outside, and it certainly looks like (at least some of) the group’s members are actively working to both make that be the case, and to promote that image of the event to the rest of LW.
Sorry, I misunderstood, I do agree that the ritual is connected to the group identity. Do you expect it to have significant effects on the LW group identity besides increasing the sense of community?
I think that opting out of a component of the group identity doesn’t necessarily lead to alienation. For example, caring about FAI is a significant part of the LW group identity, but people who care about FAI much less than, say, building rationality skills (like myself) are still welcome and included.
Do you mean signaling that you’re not part of the group, or feeling that you’re not part of the group, or both?
This is true, but a ritual designed explicitly as a group-bonding exercise (and, it seems, the most prominent such exercise) is more likely to be something opting out of which contributes to alienation than, say, caring about FAI.
Both. Although I didn’t so much mean “signaling that you’re not part of the group” as “doing something which is interpreted by other group members as an indication that you’re not part of the group”, but the difference is of emphasis at best.