it’s hard to explain why we like meeting people face to face when online conversation is so much easier.
Sure, but this is in the same sense that it’s hard to explain why we perceive three-dimensional objects when the input we’re getting is two-dimensional arrays. It took a lot of smart people paying attention to unravel that particular puzzle, but there’s nothing fundamentally mysterious about it.
There’s a lot of stuff going on in face to face interactions that isn’t present in online conversation, and it evidently includes things that many of us find gratifying.
Which things those are is worth knowing (not least because we can use that knowledge to build more gratifying telepresence rigs) but not knowing it doesn’t preclude being gratified by them, any more than not knowing how to derive 3D models from 2D images precludes perceiving 3D objects.
Not that you’re saying otherwise, granted. I suspect I’m just responding emotionally to the idea of demanding an explanation before it’s OK to value something.
I suspect I’m just responding emotionally to the idea of demanding an explanation before it’s OK to value something.
I agree with this sentiment in general, but in cases where the “something” that’s being valued is valued only by some people, rather than all (here I am referring to rituals, rather than just “meeting people face to face”), seeking an explanation is more important.
(blink) That is, if I value two practices P1 and P2, and 95% of the population values P1 and only 5% values P2, you’re saying it’s more important to seek an explanation for valuing P2 than an explanation for valuing P1… yes? Can you expand on why you believe that?
I’m not sure how you got what you said from what I said; I surmise that I was much less clear than I thought, or that I am not understanding you. Attempt #2, in the hope that it’s the former:
If everyone likes a thing, then asking “why do we like that thing” is of academic interest.
If some people like a thing but other people don’t like that thing, then asking “why do some people like that thing” has practical use. Maybe we can bring the naysayers around. Maybe we will discover that the advocates’ reasons for liking the thing are bad reasons. Maybe we’ll discover something about the underlying preferences that will allow the pro-thingers and the anti-thingers to get along better. In any case we’ll very likely come to understand each other better, and will be less likely to think that people of the other preference type are abnormal; at the most basic level, we’ll do better at keeping in mind that people of the opposite preferences exist at all. That’s a good thing.
The relevance to the discussion of rituals has to do with the fact that some participants and pro-ritual commenters have expressed sentiments such as “humans need ritual” or “people like ritual” or “people have a need for experiences of sacredness” or other things along those lines. My motivation for commenting has been largely to point out that such comments are sorely in need of having the word “some” (or, at best, “most”, conditional on at least some data supporting such a claim) inserted into them.
And given that that’s the situation — that some people like rituals, but some clearly do not — the question of “why do some people like ritual” acquires a more than academic interest, for the reasons I outlined above.
Sorry about the failure of communication, but as it happens you answered my question. Thank you.
To my mind, asking why everyone likes a thing that everyone likes has practical use. If we can answer that question, we can understand how we make that judgment, we can understand how we make related judgments. That’s a good thing. (I do agree that it’s of academic interest, though. Like many things of academic interest, it has practical use.)
That aside, though… sure, if your motivation is largely to point out that some people don’t need ritual, like ritual, or need experiences of sacredness, I expect that’s true.
Sure, but this is in the same sense that it’s hard to explain why we perceive three-dimensional objects when the input we’re getting is two-dimensional arrays. It took a lot of smart people paying attention to unravel that particular puzzle, but there’s nothing fundamentally mysterious about it.
There’s a lot of stuff going on in face to face interactions that isn’t present in online conversation, and it evidently includes things that many of us find gratifying.
Which things those are is worth knowing (not least because we can use that knowledge to build more gratifying telepresence rigs) but not knowing it doesn’t preclude being gratified by them, any more than not knowing how to derive 3D models from 2D images precludes perceiving 3D objects.
Not that you’re saying otherwise, granted. I suspect I’m just responding emotionally to the idea of demanding an explanation before it’s OK to value something.
I agree with this sentiment in general, but in cases where the “something” that’s being valued is valued only by some people, rather than all (here I am referring to rituals, rather than just “meeting people face to face”), seeking an explanation is more important.
(blink)
That is, if I value two practices P1 and P2, and 95% of the population values P1 and only 5% values P2, you’re saying it’s more important to seek an explanation for valuing P2 than an explanation for valuing P1… yes?
Can you expand on why you believe that?
… what?
I’m not sure how you got what you said from what I said; I surmise that I was much less clear than I thought, or that I am not understanding you. Attempt #2, in the hope that it’s the former:
If everyone likes a thing, then asking “why do we like that thing” is of academic interest.
If some people like a thing but other people don’t like that thing, then asking “why do some people like that thing” has practical use. Maybe we can bring the naysayers around. Maybe we will discover that the advocates’ reasons for liking the thing are bad reasons. Maybe we’ll discover something about the underlying preferences that will allow the pro-thingers and the anti-thingers to get along better. In any case we’ll very likely come to understand each other better, and will be less likely to think that people of the other preference type are abnormal; at the most basic level, we’ll do better at keeping in mind that people of the opposite preferences exist at all. That’s a good thing.
The relevance to the discussion of rituals has to do with the fact that some participants and pro-ritual commenters have expressed sentiments such as “humans need ritual” or “people like ritual” or “people have a need for experiences of sacredness” or other things along those lines. My motivation for commenting has been largely to point out that such comments are sorely in need of having the word “some” (or, at best, “most”, conditional on at least some data supporting such a claim) inserted into them.
And given that that’s the situation — that some people like rituals, but some clearly do not — the question of “why do some people like ritual” acquires a more than academic interest, for the reasons I outlined above.
Sorry about the failure of communication, but as it happens you answered my question. Thank you.
To my mind, asking why everyone likes a thing that everyone likes has practical use. If we can answer that question, we can understand how we make that judgment, we can understand how we make related judgments. That’s a good thing. (I do agree that it’s of academic interest, though. Like many things of academic interest, it has practical use.)
That aside, though… sure, if your motivation is largely to point out that some people don’t need ritual, like ritual, or need experiences of sacredness, I expect that’s true.