It was a gamble: would people really take time out of their busy lives to answer other people’s questions, for nothing more than fake internet points and bragging rights?
It turns out that people will do anything for fake internet points.
Just kidding. At best, the points, and the gamification, and the focused structure of the site did little more than encourage people to keep doing what they were already doing. People came because they wanted to help other people, because they needed to learn something new, or because they wanted to show off the clever way they’d solved a problem.
...
An incredible number of people jumped at the chance to help a stranger
On the other hand, a Slashdot comment that’s stuck in my mind (and on my hard disks) since I read it years ago:
In one respect the computer industry is exactly like the construction industry: nobody has two minutes to tell you how to do something...but they all have forty-five minutes to tell you why you did it wrong.
When I started working at a tech company, as a lowly new-guy know-nothing, I found that any question starting with “How do I...” or “What’s the best way to...” would be ignored; so I had to adopt another strategy. Say I wanted to do X. Research showed me there were (say) about six or seven ways to do X. Which is the best in my situation? I don’t know. So I pick an approach at random, though I don’t actually use it. Then I wander down to the coffee machine and casually remark, “So, I needed to do X, and I used approach Y.” I would then, inevitably, get a half-hour discussion of why that was stupid, and what I should have done was use approach Z, because of this, this, and this. Then I would go off and use approach Z.
In ten years in the tech industry, that strategy has never failed once. I think the key difference is the subtext. In the first strategy, the subtext is, “Hey, can you spend your valuable time helping me do something trivial?” while in the second strategy, the subtext is, “Hey, here’s a chance to show
off how smart you are.” People being what they are, the first subtext will usually fail—but the second will always succeed.
In addition to the specific advice, this is an excellent example of rationality because it’s about getting the best from people as they are rather than being resentful because they aren’t behaving as they would if they were ideally rational.
I can’t be sure, because I first read that comment so long ago, but I think I took it as an inspiration to be better than the co-workers at the coffee machine. It’s repellent to imagine myself as a person who’d spend 45 minutes on a Yer Doin It Rong lecture but wouldn’t spend 2 minutes to explain how to do something properly in the first place.
This is known as Cunningham’s Law. Another example.The explanation (non-competitive vs. competitive mindsets, the latter of which is more motivating to act) seems quite convincing. In addition, could there also be an analogy to loss aversion (a tendency to prefer avoiding losses to acquiring gains)? Would people feel more urgency to correct what they see as wrong (and thus challenging what they see as correct) rather than explain what is right (“less wrong” vs. “more right”, if we are not trying to avoid puns)?
Convincing people to offer others programming help on the internet isn’t a special accomplishment of SO. From usenet to modern mailing lists to forums to IRC, there are tons and tons of thriving venues for it. The gamification might have helped SO’s popularity some, but taking time out of their busy lives to answer others’ questions was alive and well.
SO is a dangerous trash heap. It doesn’t encourage helping people make good programs; it answers extremely literal questions. Speed of post is important. Style of post is important. Blatantly wrong answers are upvoted by people who don’t know what they’re looking at when they are early, indicating that vote count isn’t telling ever. Doing anything but answering a question completely literally is treated with extreme hostility. These sorts of things have gotten worse with time.
The community relations are bizarre. Active members of the community buy into cheap salesman lines by the owners that are meant to favor the owners. The idea that the community can direct itself is thrown around as if it wasn’t blatantly untrue.
Yes, an incredible people jump at the chance to help strangers. SO didn’t invent that, they’re just one of the more popular current hosts to these people. It’s distasteful to act like it started by wondering if such people exist.
It doesn’t encourage helping people make good programs; it answers extremely literal questions.
So? That’s fine. “Helping people make good programs” is awfully fuzzy and is likely to start by major holy wars breaking out. SO is useful, at least for me, because it offers fast concise answers to very specific and literal questions I have on a regular basis.
I can’t say anything about the internal politics of SO since I don’t play there.
It doesn’t encourage helping people make good programs; it answers extremely literal questions.
So? That’s fine. “Helping people make good programs” is awfully fuzzy and is likely to start by major holy wars breaking out. SO is useful, at least for me, because it offers fast concise answers to very specific and literal questions I have on a regular basis.
I can’t say anything about the internal politics of SO since I don’t play there.
It doesn’t encourage helping people make good programs; it answers extremely literal questions.
So? That’s fine. “Helping people make good programs” is awfully fuzzy and is likely to start by major holy wars breaking out. SO is useful, at least for me, because it offers fast concise answers to very specific and literal questions I have on a regular basis.
I can’t say anything about the internal politics of SO since I don’t play there.
Well, did they test popularity of sites without fake internet points vs popularity of sites with, controlling for relevant factors? I skimmed through the post, and there wasn’t much actual data on what people do and why, just assertions.
That would account for reputation, not badges. (No one says “Hey, I got two answer from people with the same rep, but one has twice as many badges, so I’ll go with that one.”)
On the actual question, I’ve seen meta-posts on Stack Exchange complaining that they qualified for a badge and didn’t get it, so the stuff does matter somewhat.
-- Jay Hanlon, Five year retrospective on StackOverflow
On the other hand, a Slashdot comment that’s stuck in my mind (and on my hard disks) since I read it years ago:
— fumblebruschi
In addition to the specific advice, this is an excellent example of rationality because it’s about getting the best from people as they are rather than being resentful because they aren’t behaving as they would if they were ideally rational.
I can’t be sure, because I first read that comment so long ago, but I think I took it as an inspiration to be better than the co-workers at the coffee machine. It’s repellent to imagine myself as a person who’d spend 45 minutes on a Yer Doin It Rong lecture but wouldn’t spend 2 minutes to explain how to do something properly in the first place.
This is known as Cunningham’s Law. Another example.The explanation (non-competitive vs. competitive mindsets, the latter of which is more motivating to act) seems quite convincing. In addition, could there also be an analogy to loss aversion (a tendency to prefer avoiding losses to acquiring gains)? Would people feel more urgency to correct what they see as wrong (and thus challenging what they see as correct) rather than explain what is right (“less wrong” vs. “more right”, if we are not trying to avoid puns)?
A reply because an upvote doesn’t begin to cover it. I might start using this!
Convincing people to offer others programming help on the internet isn’t a special accomplishment of SO. From usenet to modern mailing lists to forums to IRC, there are tons and tons of thriving venues for it. The gamification might have helped SO’s popularity some, but taking time out of their busy lives to answer others’ questions was alive and well.
SO is a dangerous trash heap. It doesn’t encourage helping people make good programs; it answers extremely literal questions. Speed of post is important. Style of post is important. Blatantly wrong answers are upvoted by people who don’t know what they’re looking at when they are early, indicating that vote count isn’t telling ever. Doing anything but answering a question completely literally is treated with extreme hostility. These sorts of things have gotten worse with time.
The community relations are bizarre. Active members of the community buy into cheap salesman lines by the owners that are meant to favor the owners. The idea that the community can direct itself is thrown around as if it wasn’t blatantly untrue.
Yes, an incredible people jump at the chance to help strangers. SO didn’t invent that, they’re just one of the more popular current hosts to these people. It’s distasteful to act like it started by wondering if such people exist.
So? That’s fine. “Helping people make good programs” is awfully fuzzy and is likely to start by major holy wars breaking out. SO is useful, at least for me, because it offers fast concise answers to very specific and literal questions I have on a regular basis.
I can’t say anything about the internal politics of SO since I don’t play there.
So? That’s fine. “Helping people make good programs” is awfully fuzzy and is likely to start by major holy wars breaking out. SO is useful, at least for me, because it offers fast concise answers to very specific and literal questions I have on a regular basis.
I can’t say anything about the internal politics of SO since I don’t play there.
So? That’s fine. “Helping people make good programs” is awfully fuzzy and is likely to start by major holy wars breaking out. SO is useful, at least for me, because it offers fast concise answers to very specific and literal questions I have on a regular basis.
I can’t say anything about the internal politics of SO since I don’t play there.
Well, did they test popularity of sites without fake internet points vs popularity of sites with, controlling for relevant factors? I skimmed through the post, and there wasn’t much actual data on what people do and why, just assertions.
I thought the point of the points was to weed out the people whose “help” you don’t want.
That would account for reputation, not badges. (No one says “Hey, I got two answer from people with the same rep, but one has twice as many badges, so I’ll go with that one.”)
On the actual question, I’ve seen meta-posts on Stack Exchange complaining that they qualified for a badge and didn’t get it, so the stuff does matter somewhat.