So this about my gender politics: Unlike the case with, say, race, I don’t think that an optimal outcome consists of gender distinctions being obliterated. If the day comes when no one notices or cares whether someone is black or white, any more than they notice eye color, I would only applaud. But obliterating the difference between male and female does not seem to me desirable, and I am glad that it is impossible using present-day technology; the fact that humanity has (at least) two sexes is part of what keeps life interesting.
Why the difference? Doesn’t the existence of different races keep life interesting?
The existence of different cultures keeps life interesting. Race is just the color-coded label for some such cultures, and it’s got a low enough correlation given modern globalization that it’s often more of an obstruction to cultural interchange than a help.
We’re evolved for mixed-sex societies, not mixed-race societies. We find sex differences much more salient than racial differences. I’m not sure whether that addresses the “optimal outcome,” but it does explain why the situations are different.
They’re not as biologically determined. The presence of different cultures keeps life interesting (though there are some cultural norms that should be destroyed as soon as it becomes possible, relativism be damned). To put an extremely shallow spin on it, I’m glad that I can leave my apartment and find mexican food, italian food, chinese food, etc., and I’m grateful for all the different groups of people who found their own ways to survive and thrive in their own particular circumstances, and thus gave me these diverse cuisines, these diverse languages, these diverse ways of living and speaking and creating art and travelling. But because none of that is (all that) biologically determined, I don’t see why the fact of my parents coming from particular places should inform my enjoyment of these cultures.
Among the only differences I could think of, is that noticing the difference between black and white has almost only negative connotation today, while noticing it between males and females is a more mixed bag. What if it was possible to attach positive affect reactions in excess to negatives ones, to that color difference ? Would it still be good to abolish people’s noticing ? Though, color of skin isn’t a category in the same sense sex is; it doesn’t correlate with so much potential difference.
This also leads to the other reason why you’d think it’s important to care about difference between sexes but not between skin color, is because the first has practical consequences, for instance, on your relationships, while the other would not.
But while this is true, I can’t shake the feeling there is a bias there, which ticks me off. Some people may not feel like gender makes such a difference in how they relate to others. This doesn’t back the idea that erasing differences is a desirable thing, but it probably lessens the extent to which the fact that humanity has two sexes adds to life’s interest—at least Eliezer should stick to saying he finds it desirable on a personal level, and be more careful about making it an universal.
It’s true—a woman can take pride in being caring, empathic, etc. A man can (secretly) take pride in being aggressive, competitive, etc. Blacks in America are constantly told to take pride in being black, but aren’t supposed to take pride in any specific traits—just specific events in history. (I saw an Indian woman, trying to compliment a black man, say very sincerely that blacks were good at sports. He was not pleased. The fact that this could seem funny is strange.)
Absorbing all cultures into a single culture would be bad; I say this based on experience with genetic algorithms. If we eliminated race, it would increase cultural entropy. And I’ve got to think there must be similar advantages to having different races, as opposed to churning out people with SNPs chosen independently with probability proportional to their worldwide frequency.
Some people may not feel like gender makes such a difference in how they relate to others. This doesn’t back the idea that erasing differences is a desirable thing, but it probably lessens the extent to which the fact that humanity has two sexes adds to life’s interest
This basically sums up my thoughts on the matter.
Either gender differences are intrinsic sex differences viewed through cultural lens, in which case erasing the differences isn’t possible anyways baring advanced technology; or they’re pure socially constructed groups with sex-biased membership in which case the proposition that gender is more relevant than any other social group identity strikes me as weakly defended at best.
Why the difference? Doesn’t the existence of different races keep life interesting?
The existence of different cultures keeps life interesting. Race is just the color-coded label for some such cultures, and it’s got a low enough correlation given modern globalization that it’s often more of an obstruction to cultural interchange than a help.
We’re evolved for mixed-sex societies, not mixed-race societies. We find sex differences much more salient than racial differences. I’m not sure whether that addresses the “optimal outcome,” but it does explain why the situations are different.
They’re not as biologically determined. The presence of different cultures keeps life interesting (though there are some cultural norms that should be destroyed as soon as it becomes possible, relativism be damned). To put an extremely shallow spin on it, I’m glad that I can leave my apartment and find mexican food, italian food, chinese food, etc., and I’m grateful for all the different groups of people who found their own ways to survive and thrive in their own particular circumstances, and thus gave me these diverse cuisines, these diverse languages, these diverse ways of living and speaking and creating art and travelling. But because none of that is (all that) biologically determined, I don’t see why the fact of my parents coming from particular places should inform my enjoyment of these cultures.
Among the only differences I could think of, is that noticing the difference between black and white has almost only negative connotation today, while noticing it between males and females is a more mixed bag. What if it was possible to attach positive affect reactions in excess to negatives ones, to that color difference ? Would it still be good to abolish people’s noticing ? Though, color of skin isn’t a category in the same sense sex is; it doesn’t correlate with so much potential difference.
This also leads to the other reason why you’d think it’s important to care about difference between sexes but not between skin color, is because the first has practical consequences, for instance, on your relationships, while the other would not.
But while this is true, I can’t shake the feeling there is a bias there, which ticks me off. Some people may not feel like gender makes such a difference in how they relate to others. This doesn’t back the idea that erasing differences is a desirable thing, but it probably lessens the extent to which the fact that humanity has two sexes adds to life’s interest—at least Eliezer should stick to saying he finds it desirable on a personal level, and be more careful about making it an universal.
It’s true—a woman can take pride in being caring, empathic, etc. A man can (secretly) take pride in being aggressive, competitive, etc. Blacks in America are constantly told to take pride in being black, but aren’t supposed to take pride in any specific traits—just specific events in history. (I saw an Indian woman, trying to compliment a black man, say very sincerely that blacks were good at sports. He was not pleased. The fact that this could seem funny is strange.)
Absorbing all cultures into a single culture would be bad; I say this based on experience with genetic algorithms. If we eliminated race, it would increase cultural entropy. And I’ve got to think there must be similar advantages to having different races, as opposed to churning out people with SNPs chosen independently with probability proportional to their worldwide frequency.
It seems you’re mixing culture with ethnicity.
Also, ethnicity/race is a historical, but ultimately pointless fact of evolution. Why should we care, other than for its social implications?
This basically sums up my thoughts on the matter.
Either gender differences are intrinsic sex differences viewed through cultural lens, in which case erasing the differences isn’t possible anyways baring advanced technology; or they’re pure socially constructed groups with sex-biased membership in which case the proposition that gender is more relevant than any other social group identity strikes me as weakly defended at best.