The whole sexual harassment thing at atheist conventions seems ironic, considering that for generations both christian authority figures and many atheists themselves have maintained that nonbelief in god can lead to a swinging sex life. I’ve read biographies of several well known atheists—Denis Diderot, Percy Shelley, Bertrand Russell, off the top of my head—and they all articulated some kind of ideological message linking their atheism with sexual freedom. Even female atheists like Emma Goldman, Ayn Rand and Madalyn Murray O’Hair have said things along those lines.
So what has actually happened? When you gather a bunch of atheists together for a conference, do you have a sexual utopia going on in the hotel rooms upstairs? Apparently not. But then people made other bad predictions about atheists’ behavior before we had enough atheists around to supply empirical evidence. Godless women still reject non-alpha males, just like other women.
How is this relevant? I have never seen Mr. Shermer, so I have no idea whether he is an “alpha” or not, but regardless...
being an atheist does not imply a desire for a swinging sexual life
a swinging sexual life does not imply consent to sex with a specific person
So speculations about whether atheism can lead to sexual utopia in general are irrelevant for whether a specific person have raped another specific person.
Sexual freedom does not mean people must have sex with everyone. It means that if two (or more) people agree on having sex together, they can have it.
Nothing in that article says something about sexual harassment.
Also don’t confuse disbelief in God with atheists activism. One doesn’t go to a convention about atheism because one doesn’t believe. On goes because one cares enough about one’s own beliefs to spread them. I wouldn’t expect high openness to experience scores with that crowd.
The bigger LW events that I experienced for example do have a lot more physical intimacy, both male-male and male-female than “normal society” and what I would expect to be the norms at an atheist convention.
Despite that conventions with a high percentage of guys are in general not likely to lead to a lot of sexual activity.
Sexual harassment mentioned in this article. The bits I quoted include links, but I think it’s more trouble than it’s worth for me to reformat them for LW, so go back to the freethoughblog timeline if you want details.:
ChristianKl, which article were you referring to?
September, 2008
Gay has recounted in several places, without naming names, a story that while being introduced to Michael Shermer at Dragon*Con in 2008, he made a drunken lunge at her breasts instead of shaking her hand. DJ Grothe has related this story a number of times to a number of people, indicating that he had intervened to stop the public groping from happening.
May 2010
Ashley Miller
At a dinner event she attended featuring PZ Myers, Ashley encounters Michael Shermer, who allegedly spoke with her for several minutes while massaging his genitals through his jeans. She describes the incident here.Pamela Gay
May 23rd, 2012
pseudonymous commenter Miriamne
A comment left at Friendly Atheist names Michael Shermer as allegedly having harassed her, and “trying to sleep with a new young woman every TAM”.
August 7th, 2013
Unnamed victims via Brian Thompson
Brian Thompson, former employee of JREF, claims to personally know a number of women who have been harassed by Shermer, via Twitter. He specifies two instances of ‘being creeped at’, one of ‘being groped’ (by Shermer and/or another alleged creeper, Ben Radford). This could certainly refer to him being present for Shermer’s lunge at Pamela Gay.
Elyse Anders
Elyse describes some unwelcome salacious comments from Shermer after she drops a chicken tender at the TAM9 reception buffet.
August 7th, 2013
Unnamed victims via Brian Thompson
Brian Thompson, former employee of JREF, claims to personally know a number of women who have been harassed by Shermer, via Twitter. He specifies two instances of ‘being creeped at’, one of ‘being groped’ (by Shermer and/or another alleged creeper, Ben Radford). This could certainly refer to him being present for Shermer’s lunge at Pamela Gay.
Elyse Anders
Elyse describes some unwelcome salacious comments from Shermer after she drops a chicken tender at the TAM9 reception buffet.
August 9th, 2013
Unnamed victim through delphi_ote
A participant at the JREF forums corroborates the existence of allegations against Michael Shermer by unnamed alleged victims.
August 8th, 2013
Unnamed victims via PZ Myers — Alison Smith
PZ Myers posts accounts by sources he trusts regarding allegations of Michael Shermer’s witnessed and experienced predatory tactics and alleged sexual assault of women he coerced into a position where they could not legally consent.
naomibaker
naomibaker relates her story about how she was contacted ostensibly by Michael Shermer’s wife asking if the story she told about a cheating husband without names was talking about Michael. She listed names that Shermer had apparently had affairs with, several of the names being recognizeable.
The timeline continues with legal actions and arguments about what happened, but has no additional allegations.
The timeline continues with legal actions and arguments about what happened, but has no additional allegations.
You forgot me.
August 13th, 2013
Dallas J. Haugh
Dallas posts a suicide note which includes allegations of rape against Shermer. It is taken down by a relative when he is secured and taken to a hospital; after he’s released, he reposts it.
Shermer writes that he got married a few months back. I wonder what the new Mrs. Shermer makes of these allegations: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/anomalous-events-that-can-shake-one-s-skepticism-to-the-core/
The whole sexual harassment thing at atheist conventions seems ironic, considering that for generations both christian authority figures and many atheists themselves have maintained that nonbelief in god can lead to a swinging sex life. I’ve read biographies of several well known atheists—Denis Diderot, Percy Shelley, Bertrand Russell, off the top of my head—and they all articulated some kind of ideological message linking their atheism with sexual freedom. Even female atheists like Emma Goldman, Ayn Rand and Madalyn Murray O’Hair have said things along those lines.
So what has actually happened? When you gather a bunch of atheists together for a conference, do you have a sexual utopia going on in the hotel rooms upstairs? Apparently not. But then people made other bad predictions about atheists’ behavior before we had enough atheists around to supply empirical evidence. Godless women still reject non-alpha males, just like other women.
How is this relevant? I have never seen Mr. Shermer, so I have no idea whether he is an “alpha” or not, but regardless...
being an atheist does not imply a desire for a swinging sexual life
a swinging sexual life does not imply consent to sex with a specific person
So speculations about whether atheism can lead to sexual utopia in general are irrelevant for whether a specific person have raped another specific person.
Sexual freedom does not mean people must have sex with everyone. It means that if two (or more) people agree on having sex together, they can have it.
Regardless of her fiction, in real life Rand seemed to prefer men she could dominate.
What do you mean by a sexual utopia?
Nothing in that article says something about sexual harassment.
Also don’t confuse disbelief in God with atheists activism. One doesn’t go to a convention about atheism because one doesn’t believe. On goes because one cares enough about one’s own beliefs to spread them. I wouldn’t expect high openness to experience scores with that crowd.
The bigger LW events that I experienced for example do have a lot more physical intimacy, both male-male and male-female than “normal society” and what I would expect to be the norms at an atheist convention.
Despite that conventions with a high percentage of guys are in general not likely to lead to a lot of sexual activity.
Sexual harassment mentioned in this article. The bits I quoted include links, but I think it’s more trouble than it’s worth for me to reformat them for LW, so go back to the freethoughblog timeline if you want details.:
ChristianKl, which article were you referring to?
Gay has recounted in several places, without naming names, a story that while being introduced to Michael Shermer at Dragon*Con in 2008, he made a drunken lunge at her breasts instead of shaking her hand. DJ Grothe has related this story a number of times to a number of people, indicating that he had intervened to stop the public groping from happening.
Ashley Miller At a dinner event she attended featuring PZ Myers, Ashley encounters Michael Shermer, who allegedly spoke with her for several minutes while massaging his genitals through his jeans. She describes the incident here.Pamela Gay
pseudonymous commenter Miriamne A comment left at Friendly Atheist names Michael Shermer as allegedly having harassed her, and “trying to sleep with a new young woman every TAM”.
Unnamed victims via Brian Thompson Brian Thompson, former employee of JREF, claims to personally know a number of women who have been harassed by Shermer, via Twitter. He specifies two instances of ‘being creeped at’, one of ‘being groped’ (by Shermer and/or another alleged creeper, Ben Radford). This could certainly refer to him being present for Shermer’s lunge at Pamela Gay.
Elyse Anders Elyse describes some unwelcome salacious comments from Shermer after she drops a chicken tender at the TAM9 reception buffet.
Unnamed victims via Brian Thompson Brian Thompson, former employee of JREF, claims to personally know a number of women who have been harassed by Shermer, via Twitter. He specifies two instances of ‘being creeped at’, one of ‘being groped’ (by Shermer and/or another alleged creeper, Ben Radford). This could certainly refer to him being present for Shermer’s lunge at Pamela Gay.
Elyse Anders Elyse describes some unwelcome salacious comments from Shermer after she drops a chicken tender at the TAM9 reception buffet.
Unnamed victim through delphi_ote A participant at the JREF forums corroborates the existence of allegations against Michael Shermer by unnamed alleged victims.
Unnamed victims via PZ Myers — Alison Smith PZ Myers posts accounts by sources he trusts regarding allegations of Michael Shermer’s witnessed and experienced predatory tactics and alleged sexual assault of women he coerced into a position where they could not legally consent.
naomibaker naomibaker relates her story about how she was contacted ostensibly by Michael Shermer’s wife asking if the story she told about a cheating husband without names was talking about Michael. She listed names that Shermer had apparently had affairs with, several of the names being recognizeable.
The timeline continues with legal actions and arguments about what happened, but has no additional allegations.
You forgot me.