Why do you use abbreviations? To make the text less readable?
This is not about politics. I often say I am interested in government, but not politics. This confuses a lot of people.
To me that sound like someone saying they haven’t analysed their proposal well enough to understand it’s political implications.
They have no authority over what topic area they get to write laws about, that is determined by the IC and then voted upon by the C2.
Who decides whether the law they write counts as the topic that the IC decided?
How do the experts get selected?
Where’s the executive in your system? In our system we have the executive do things like negotiate international treaties that afterwards get affirmed by parliaments.
Is there a constitution that constrains which laws can be passed?
We even use sortition in committees of experts in various forms form peer reviewed journals with somewhat random selection from a pool of qualified individuals or ECs in my system.
Citation needed. I always thought that the journal chooses with reviewer it likes and then asks those reviewers. The fact that the do something like a fair sortition would be news for me.
Suffice to say, the RCs must have completed high school and cannot be intellectually disabled.
What does “intellectually disabled” mean? Is someone with diagnosed ADHD intellectually disabled? What about autism?
They don’t even need to know, nor could they know each other.
If they don’t know each other who’s the trusted third party that mediates the information flow?
In my system of sortition election there is a mini-referendum done by a huge sampling of 1,000-5,000 representatives at the highest level. They vote everything up or down and cannot change anything about a bill themselves. They are not congregated into one place and there is no politics between them.
Basically you want them to vote on laws they haven’t read without speaking with other members of the committee who read the laws. Could you explain in more detail why you want things to be that way?
In the 1,000 member C2, any law in the margins of 550-450 can have a special second vote proposed by the disagreeing side such that if more than 600 agree then the item is added to the general monthly or quarterly referendum conducted electronically with the entire population.
That basically means that the NSA gets to decide every 550-450 split if it wants to do so.
Abbreviations shorten the text, many posts on LW use them.
I have thought out the political implications and my desire was to design a system which has less of a place for politics. The void for politics to fill in how we conduct ourselves could be reduced intentionally.
The top level of government reads the bill and the call for a bill. If it doesn’t match up with the focus of the call, then they can vote it down. Alternately the mid level issue committee could serve as a buffer to read proposed legislation before voting in a simple majority to pass it up to the top level of government.
Expert selection addressed in other comment.
This is a description of the legislative system only. I have the executive and judiciary outlined in my link and did not wish to discuss them and their system interplay here.
Sure, there can be a constitution with super authority which is difficult to modify. Again, excluded for brevities sake.
Perhaps I’ve confused about the journal citation industry. Certainly the journal can screen their pool of peer reviewers, but there will still be one. I suppose it was overstrong to imply a forced level of complying with peer review requests...but there is an implicit one. If a professor always declines to review papers, then they wont be asked again by the journal as it becomes a waste of time. It is also better as there is a pool of reviewers and the researchers are removed from that choice. The researcher cannot choose who reviews their article, in that sense there is a type of low-enforcement level sortition from a limited pool of candidates in place.
How random citizens are selected is addressed above. They must be in the normal range for intelligence, with a cut off on the low end, pick an IQ point like 75 or 80 based on a running average and some fixed standard deviation away from that average. Severe intellectual disabilities such as down-syndrome or psychosis can be initially excluded from the selection pool so that they are not constantly being screened out. I mean severe when I meant severe, something everyone could agree upon.
They would work from a specially designed computer system for communicating and voting. Could it be hacked or compromised, sure...but so could nuclear missile launch codes.
I want them to read the laws of course! I never said they shouldn’t. The top level people in the C2 would have staff to help them organize their schedules and such. The IC/SC would create summaries of the issue brief calling for a law, the sub-committee would also create a brief of the proposed legislation. There is less worry of underhanded tricks and total crap being put into laws as no one has any constituents or donors to service. These are far more impartial and less invested citizens. The C2 is like a mini-referendum. They are a capture of what people would think if they took time to evaluate each proposed law. I want it to be that way to avoid corruption and bias on several levels. The people voting on the law didn’t write it and have no investment in it passing or not, bias is removed at this step. They are less likely to have systemic corruption issues as they do not court donors or voters. They are to act as the average citizen would and individually matter very little. There are at least a thousand of them. They simply vote the way they want to and all the results are tallied up to take a measure of the collective will of the people. They are more sensitive to the will of the people as they are not removed from their communities. They live in their regular house and do not travel out of state to engage in full time politicking. I argue they are better connected to the real world than someone tied to the narrow and myopic range of ‘voter issues’ or campaign nonsense where single issues are compressed down to easy to understand sound bites.
Not sure what you mean by NSA. The C2 or the executive (not described how here) can reject a bill, if the majority, perhaps 60% of the C2 have a secondary vote, then it can go to a broad referendum for all citizens to consider. Essentially the mini-referendum group of the C2 is shown to be not sensitive enough to measure the will of the people and a wider referendum is needed on such contentious issues.
I want them to read the laws of course! I never said they shouldn’t.
Then you haven’t thought your proposal through.
How many pages of laws do you think can a “regular citizen” read and understand per day? Especially if the people writing the laws have an incentive to not make it obvious what their law does and sometimes hide it issues in obscure paragraphs because they aren’t the people voting on the law?
Do you think that your system will only pass that many pages of law?
They must be in the normal range for intelligence, with a cut off on the low end, pick an IQ point like 75 or 80 based on a running average and some fixed standard deviation away from that average. Severe intellectual disabilities such as down-syndrome or psychosis can be initially excluded from the selection pool so that they are not constantly being screened out. I mean severe when I meant severe, something everyone could agree upon.
You still fail to describe a process which makes the decision about who’s allowed and who isn’t and who is in power of controlling the process.
If you write an IQ test you can write it in a way that women score a bit more or a bit less. You probably can also write it in a way that people with a high degree of openness to experience score better.
They would work from a specially designed computer system for communicating and voting. Could it be hacked or compromised, sure...but so could nuclear missile launch codes.
Nuclear weapons are protected by air gaps. They have physical guards that are military personal that we trust for protecting the weapons. It’s okay when the military has the power to use nuclear weapons. On the other hand you don’t want to give the military the power to dictate election results.
The fact that you use nuclear launch codes as example is also very ironic. At the beginning congress wanted nuclear launch codes to protect nuclear weapons. The US military didn’t like their weapons to be crippled so they simply set all nuclear weapons to have the same code that all the personal knew. It’s security theater.
There also a nuclear weapon that nearly exploded when 3 of 4 safety measures failed and an airplane crashed. Nuclear launch codes didn’t provide any safety in that case.
Not sure what you mean by NSA. The C2 or the executive (not described how here) can reject a bill, if the majority, perhaps 60% of the C2 have a secondary vote, then it can go to a broad referendum for all citizens to consider.
The NSA effectively control the cyberspace of the US and therefore can make your electronic election to have any result it wants to. The Chaos Computer Club and associated people have fought voting machine for quite some time now because they effectively mean that powerful people can easily rig elections.
Perhaps I’ve confused about the journal citation industry. Certainly the journal can screen their pool of peer reviewers, but there will still be one.
You are basically saying that an dictatorship where the dictator chooses his advisors to write policies is the same system as a system where advisors are picked in some random fashion.
Why do you use abbreviations? To make the text less readable?
To me that sound like someone saying they haven’t analysed their proposal well enough to understand it’s political implications.
Who decides whether the law they write counts as the topic that the IC decided?
How do the experts get selected?
Where’s the executive in your system? In our system we have the executive do things like negotiate international treaties that afterwards get affirmed by parliaments.
Is there a constitution that constrains which laws can be passed?
Citation needed. I always thought that the journal chooses with reviewer it likes and then asks those reviewers. The fact that the do something like a fair sortition would be news for me.
What does “intellectually disabled” mean? Is someone with diagnosed ADHD intellectually disabled? What about autism?
If they don’t know each other who’s the trusted third party that mediates the information flow?
Basically you want them to vote on laws they haven’t read without speaking with other members of the committee who read the laws. Could you explain in more detail why you want things to be that way?
That basically means that the NSA gets to decide every 550-450 split if it wants to do so.
Abbreviations shorten the text, many posts on LW use them.
I have thought out the political implications and my desire was to design a system which has less of a place for politics. The void for politics to fill in how we conduct ourselves could be reduced intentionally.
The top level of government reads the bill and the call for a bill. If it doesn’t match up with the focus of the call, then they can vote it down. Alternately the mid level issue committee could serve as a buffer to read proposed legislation before voting in a simple majority to pass it up to the top level of government.
Expert selection addressed in other comment.
This is a description of the legislative system only. I have the executive and judiciary outlined in my link and did not wish to discuss them and their system interplay here.
Sure, there can be a constitution with super authority which is difficult to modify. Again, excluded for brevities sake.
Perhaps I’ve confused about the journal citation industry. Certainly the journal can screen their pool of peer reviewers, but there will still be one. I suppose it was overstrong to imply a forced level of complying with peer review requests...but there is an implicit one. If a professor always declines to review papers, then they wont be asked again by the journal as it becomes a waste of time. It is also better as there is a pool of reviewers and the researchers are removed from that choice. The researcher cannot choose who reviews their article, in that sense there is a type of low-enforcement level sortition from a limited pool of candidates in place.
How random citizens are selected is addressed above. They must be in the normal range for intelligence, with a cut off on the low end, pick an IQ point like 75 or 80 based on a running average and some fixed standard deviation away from that average. Severe intellectual disabilities such as down-syndrome or psychosis can be initially excluded from the selection pool so that they are not constantly being screened out. I mean severe when I meant severe, something everyone could agree upon.
They would work from a specially designed computer system for communicating and voting. Could it be hacked or compromised, sure...but so could nuclear missile launch codes.
I want them to read the laws of course! I never said they shouldn’t. The top level people in the C2 would have staff to help them organize their schedules and such. The IC/SC would create summaries of the issue brief calling for a law, the sub-committee would also create a brief of the proposed legislation. There is less worry of underhanded tricks and total crap being put into laws as no one has any constituents or donors to service. These are far more impartial and less invested citizens. The C2 is like a mini-referendum. They are a capture of what people would think if they took time to evaluate each proposed law. I want it to be that way to avoid corruption and bias on several levels. The people voting on the law didn’t write it and have no investment in it passing or not, bias is removed at this step. They are less likely to have systemic corruption issues as they do not court donors or voters. They are to act as the average citizen would and individually matter very little. There are at least a thousand of them. They simply vote the way they want to and all the results are tallied up to take a measure of the collective will of the people. They are more sensitive to the will of the people as they are not removed from their communities. They live in their regular house and do not travel out of state to engage in full time politicking. I argue they are better connected to the real world than someone tied to the narrow and myopic range of ‘voter issues’ or campaign nonsense where single issues are compressed down to easy to understand sound bites.
Not sure what you mean by NSA. The C2 or the executive (not described how here) can reject a bill, if the majority, perhaps 60% of the C2 have a secondary vote, then it can go to a broad referendum for all citizens to consider. Essentially the mini-referendum group of the C2 is shown to be not sensitive enough to measure the will of the people and a wider referendum is needed on such contentious issues.
Cheers!
Then you haven’t thought your proposal through.
How many pages of laws do you think can a “regular citizen” read and understand per day? Especially if the people writing the laws have an incentive to not make it obvious what their law does and sometimes hide it issues in obscure paragraphs because they aren’t the people voting on the law?
Do you think that your system will only pass that many pages of law?
You still fail to describe a process which makes the decision about who’s allowed and who isn’t and who is in power of controlling the process.
If you write an IQ test you can write it in a way that women score a bit more or a bit less. You probably can also write it in a way that people with a high degree of openness to experience score better.
Nuclear weapons are protected by air gaps. They have physical guards that are military personal that we trust for protecting the weapons. It’s okay when the military has the power to use nuclear weapons. On the other hand you don’t want to give the military the power to dictate election results.
The fact that you use nuclear launch codes as example is also very ironic. At the beginning congress wanted nuclear launch codes to protect nuclear weapons. The US military didn’t like their weapons to be crippled so they simply set all nuclear weapons to have the same code that all the personal knew. It’s security theater.
There also a nuclear weapon that nearly exploded when 3 of 4 safety measures failed and an airplane crashed. Nuclear launch codes didn’t provide any safety in that case.
The NSA effectively control the cyberspace of the US and therefore can make your electronic election to have any result it wants to. The Chaos Computer Club and associated people have fought voting machine for quite some time now because they effectively mean that powerful people can easily rig elections.
You are basically saying that an dictatorship where the dictator chooses his advisors to write policies is the same system as a system where advisors are picked in some random fashion.