Can you define “meaningless” for me, as you understand it?
I means “does not have a meaning.”
In particular, how it applies to grammatically correct statements.
In general, it doesn’t apply to grammatically correct sentences, and definitely not to statements. It’s possible that you will find something grammatically correct which is meaningless, but it would have to be severely contorted.
How do you know?
If you can ask the question, “How do you know?”, then the thing has a meaning. I will show you an example of something meaningless:
faheuh fr dhwuidfh d dhwudhdww
Note that there is no question of knowing or not knowing anything. When you can ask how you know something or don’t know it, then the thing has a meaning.
It only explains the “-less” suffix. It’s fine as a dictionary definition, but that’s obviously not what I asked for. I need you to explain “meaning” as well.
The problem with that is that if the word “meaning” has several meanings you will have a situation like this:
Suppose the word “meaning” has two meanings, A & B. But then we can ask what the word “meanings” means in the previous sentence: does it mean A, or B? If you answer that it means A, then the word “meaning” might have two meanings in the A sense, but five meanings in the B sense. But then we can ask what the word “meanings” means in the previous statement. And it might turn out that if the word “meanings” is taken in the B sense, the statement (about 2 and 5) is only true if we take the fourth meaning of the B sense, while in the 3rd sense, it has 7 meanings in the A sense, and 2 meanings in the B sense. And so on, ad infinitum.
All of that means that we have to accept a basic sense of meaning which comes before all the others if we want to talk about meaning at all. And in that basic sense, statements like that obviously have a meaning, whereas ones like “shirwho h wehjoeihqw dhfufh sjs” do not.
we have to accept a basic sense … And in that basic sense, statements like that obviously have a meaning
Your comment boils down to “It’s complicated, but I’m obviously right”. It’s not a very convincing argument.
Meaning is complicated. It is a function of at least four variables: the speaker, the listener, the message, and the context. It’s also well-trodden ground over which herds of philosophers regularly stampede and everything with the tag of “obviously” has been smashed into tiny little pieces by now.
Your comment boils down to “It’s complicated, but I’m obviously right”.
You’re right about the “I’m obviously right” part, but not the rest. It boils down to “you have to start somewhere.” You can’t start out with many meanings of “meaning”, otherwise you don’t know what you mean by “meanings” in the sentence “I am starting out with many meanings of meaning.” You have to start with one meaning, and in that case you can know what you mean when you say “I am starting with one meaning of meaning.”
I means “does not have a meaning.”
In general, it doesn’t apply to grammatically correct sentences, and definitely not to statements. It’s possible that you will find something grammatically correct which is meaningless, but it would have to be severely contorted.
If you can ask the question, “How do you know?”, then the thing has a meaning. I will show you an example of something meaningless:
faheuh fr dhwuidfh d dhwudhdww
Note that there is no question of knowing or not knowing anything. When you can ask how you know something or don’t know it, then the thing has a meaning.
I’m sure you can see how unhelpful this is.
No.
It only explains the “-less” suffix. It’s fine as a dictionary definition, but that’s obviously not what I asked for. I need you to explain “meaning” as well.
You need no such thing, and as I said, we won’t be continuing the discussion of language until you show it has something to do with consciousness.
Noam Chomsky wrote “Colorless green ideas sleep furiously” in 1955.
Ideas don’t sleep, so they don’t sleep furiously. The sentence is false, not meaningless.
This topic has been discussed, fairly extensively.
Yes. No one has shown that it is meaningless and it pretty obviously is not.
That’s a definitions argument, isn’t it? Under some ideas of what “meaning”, well, means, such sentences are meaningful; under others they are not.
The problem with that is that if the word “meaning” has several meanings you will have a situation like this:
Suppose the word “meaning” has two meanings, A & B. But then we can ask what the word “meanings” means in the previous sentence: does it mean A, or B? If you answer that it means A, then the word “meaning” might have two meanings in the A sense, but five meanings in the B sense. But then we can ask what the word “meanings” means in the previous statement. And it might turn out that if the word “meanings” is taken in the B sense, the statement (about 2 and 5) is only true if we take the fourth meaning of the B sense, while in the 3rd sense, it has 7 meanings in the A sense, and 2 meanings in the B sense. And so on, ad infinitum.
All of that means that we have to accept a basic sense of meaning which comes before all the others if we want to talk about meaning at all. And in that basic sense, statements like that obviously have a meaning, whereas ones like “shirwho h wehjoeihqw dhfufh sjs” do not.
Your comment boils down to “It’s complicated, but I’m obviously right”. It’s not a very convincing argument.
Meaning is complicated. It is a function of at least four variables: the speaker, the listener, the message, and the context. It’s also well-trodden ground over which herds of philosophers regularly stampede and everything with the tag of “obviously” has been smashed into tiny little pieces by now.
You’re right about the “I’m obviously right” part, but not the rest. It boils down to “you have to start somewhere.” You can’t start out with many meanings of “meaning”, otherwise you don’t know what you mean by “meanings” in the sentence “I am starting out with many meanings of meaning.” You have to start with one meaning, and in that case you can know what you mean when you say “I am starting with one meaning of meaning.”