Not sure if I should create another thread out of it, but I did ‘convert’ to orthodox judaism (from being an atheist by default) at the age of 15. After 20 years I am back to atheism, though I’d say it’s no longer a ‘default’ (which was I suppose the problem in the first place). Feel free to ask questions :)
(Just to clarify—I did not actually have to convert, I’m half jewish on the right side, so conversion = observance in this context)
Partially it was the environment. I ended up in an orthodox Jewish school when I came to the US largely b/c I was used to having so many Jewish friends in my math-sci school in USSR. I already had cousins in this school.
The next largest factor is that the specific approach of this school was to claim that Judaism is “rational” and “proved” along these lines. Unfortunately I did not have Methods of Rationality under my belt, but I did like the label. In addition, the best counterarguments to this “proof” actually require some knowledge if Judaism from the inside, which I did not have at the time.
Lastly I’d mention the fact that having survived so long Judaism is a very powerful memetic system. As one example, the Talmud is largely logical and whenever it’s not new methods are developed to “reconcile” the inconsistencies; these methods are praised and constitute the main activity of Rabbinical students for millennia. When first exposed to this it’s hard to not be impressed, and in my case convinced.
My deconversion should probably be credited to 3 things that occurred at around same time.
Earthquake in Haiti, and seeing bodies of kids piled up by medical workers. I have kids myself and was not even as a religious person arrogant enough to draw distinctions—I realized that with all the explanations and mysteries God does not care about what I have to protect.
Lastly reading LessWrong (I had interests in biases and AI), things like “Belief in Belief”, “Privileging the hypothesis” added a certain amount of reflectivity to my thinking, and also gave me another community with social acceptance to my new set of beliefs.
Not sure if I should create another thread out of it, but I did ‘convert’ to orthodox judaism (from being an atheist by default) at the age of 15. After 20 years I am back to atheism, though I’d say it’s no longer a ‘default’ (which was I suppose the problem in the first place). Feel free to ask questions :)
(Calcsam, sorry if I’m hijacking a bit)
Why did you convert to orthodox Judaism? Why did you go back to atheism?
(Just to clarify—I did not actually have to convert, I’m half jewish on the right side, so conversion = observance in this context)
Partially it was the environment. I ended up in an orthodox Jewish school when I came to the US largely b/c I was used to having so many Jewish friends in my math-sci school in USSR. I already had cousins in this school.
The next largest factor is that the specific approach of this school was to claim that Judaism is “rational” and “proved” along these lines. Unfortunately I did not have Methods of Rationality under my belt, but I did like the label. In addition, the best counterarguments to this “proof” actually require some knowledge if Judaism from the inside, which I did not have at the time.
Lastly I’d mention the fact that having survived so long Judaism is a very powerful memetic system. As one example, the Talmud is largely logical and whenever it’s not new methods are developed to “reconcile” the inconsistencies; these methods are praised and constitute the main activity of Rabbinical students for millennia. When first exposed to this it’s hard to not be impressed, and in my case convinced.
My deconversion should probably be credited to 3 things that occurred at around same time.
Earthquake in Haiti, and seeing bodies of kids piled up by medical workers. I have kids myself and was not even as a religious person arrogant enough to draw distinctions—I realized that with all the explanations and mysteries God does not care about what I have to protect.
I became more open to consider and seek out arguments against the Torah along these lines http://www.talkreason.org/articles/letter1.cfm .
Lastly reading LessWrong (I had interests in biases and AI), things like “Belief in Belief”, “Privileging the hypothesis” added a certain amount of reflectivity to my thinking, and also gave me another community with social acceptance to my new set of beliefs.