I read your conversion story, and something that leaps out at me from it (and from some other conversion stories I’ve read) is that religious doctrine plays no part in it at all. You joined the Mormon church because, unlike the Methodist church you visited, it was an effective community for supporting its members to live good and useful lives, not because you were persuaded the Book of Mormon was divinely revealed to Joseph Smith, engraved on a set of gold plates. Presumably, if you had found a sterile atmosphere with the Mormons and a fertile one with the Methodists, you would have joined the Methodists? Or Catholics, or Buddhists, or Wiccans?
For the rationalist, the elephant in any religion is the supernatural stories that they all include, and it is easy to assume—especially as some of the adherents say this themselves—that the supernatural stories must be the foundation of the religion, on which all of its advice on how to live is based, and without which the whole edifice collapses. Some religious people do see it that way. But for some others, the supernatural part is just a sideshow. The important part is how the community of the religion supports its members to do good, avoid evil, and help each other, and the supernatural part is just so much wrapping paper. It really doesn’t matter to them if it’s nonsense, except for the misguided souls who take it too seriously.
Does that describe your relationship to Mormonism?
Not really—that’s an interesting perspective on my essay though. I’m not sure your reading is accurate. A couple of counterexamples are below.
See my addition to my post above—the “effective community aspect” was first, followed by the “spiritual experiences” aspect and initial thought about the doctrine, then followed by pretty deep digging into the doctrine.
I wrote the essay you read after the first and second but before the third, which is probably why you didn’t see too much emphasis on doctrine.
I find Less Wrongians similarly devoted to living the good life and joining with others in doing so, which is why I like being around here.
Through ordinances performed for the dead, I learned, everyone will get their chance to be taught the Gospel and accept it, or not. The missionaries taught me other Church doctrines and practices: no infant baptism, a lay ministry staffed by volunteers, a prophet and apostles in modern times as in old. And the teachings started to make sense, in that they were internally coherent. If I were a Christian, I thought, I’d be a Mormon.
Resolving such intellectual doubts went hand-in-hand with more scripture study, and some prayer. I began to read the rest of the Book of Mormon and the New Testament and I devoured CS Lewis’s Screwtape Letters. Somewhere, things started to go beyond just making sense; they became real to me. As my knowledge expanded, the doctrinal paradigm fit the facts better. A seed grew in my heart.
I read your conversion story, and something that leaps out at me from it (and from some other conversion stories I’ve read) is that religious doctrine plays no part in it at all. You joined the Mormon church because, unlike the Methodist church you visited, it was an effective community for supporting its members to live good and useful lives, not because you were persuaded the Book of Mormon was divinely revealed to Joseph Smith, engraved on a set of gold plates. Presumably, if you had found a sterile atmosphere with the Mormons and a fertile one with the Methodists, you would have joined the Methodists? Or Catholics, or Buddhists, or Wiccans?
For the rationalist, the elephant in any religion is the supernatural stories that they all include, and it is easy to assume—especially as some of the adherents say this themselves—that the supernatural stories must be the foundation of the religion, on which all of its advice on how to live is based, and without which the whole edifice collapses. Some religious people do see it that way. But for some others, the supernatural part is just a sideshow. The important part is how the community of the religion supports its members to do good, avoid evil, and help each other, and the supernatural part is just so much wrapping paper. It really doesn’t matter to them if it’s nonsense, except for the misguided souls who take it too seriously.
Does that describe your relationship to Mormonism?
In principle, of course, one does not need a supernatural story in order to find and live the good life, and join with others in doing so. In practice, however, it doesn’t always work out that way.
Not really—that’s an interesting perspective on my essay though. I’m not sure your reading is accurate. A couple of counterexamples are below.
See my addition to my post above—the “effective community aspect” was first, followed by the “spiritual experiences” aspect and initial thought about the doctrine, then followed by pretty deep digging into the doctrine.
I wrote the essay you read after the first and second but before the third, which is probably why you didn’t see too much emphasis on doctrine.
I find Less Wrongians similarly devoted to living the good life and joining with others in doing so, which is why I like being around here.
I went through a time like yours in college, but i found LW about the time you met Joesph and my roommate was much more cynical ;)