Can you quantify that probability? Also, you might be surprised that the Less Wrong consensus (or maybe strong minority position?) is closer to pantheism than atheism.
Judeo-Christian-style gods create the entire universe (as in everything that exists, not as in single components of a multiverse). A self-consistent god can be incompatible with the Tegmark multiverse.
That seems more like Gaiman’s Vertigo universe, where every god ever believed in has a physical reality fueled by that belief. It’s not a real-life belief, as far as I know, and it’s certainly not what is meant by “pantheism”.
Pantheism is the worship of the universe as a God. Most of us here in Less Wrong don’t worship the universe, we want to bind it to our service instead.
A lot of those that have thought carefully about it do. The Big Universe (Tegmark 1) is much easier to accept than level 4, as it is the current scientific consensus on cosmology. Most of the weird consequences of the bigger mathematical universe also happen in a simpler big universe, but scientists aren’t so good at taking the philosophical consequences of their ideas seriously.
The Big Universe (Tegmark 1) is much easier to accept than level 4, as it is the current scientific consensus on cosmology.
BTW, I strongly believe (>90%) that the consensus on cosmology is will change in some way that doesn’t have strong implications for observations but does have strong implications for this kind of philosophy. E.g., the dark matter/energy problem getting resolved to some way that makes the universe finite.
As for level 4, we could have a long and pointless debate that would reduce to the subtleties of defining what it means for something to exist.
“A lot of those that have thought carefully about it do.”
Oh, you ran a poll on LW, and most folks responded to it, with the results confirming your anecdotal hunch about the consensus view? Cool.
For a second there I thought you were making strange unsupported claims about people most of whom you don’t know and with whom you haven’t discussed Tegmark universes.
I’m vaguely aware that some Less Wrong people profess this belief, but as it’s not discussed on Less Wrong, I wouldn’t call it a Less Wrong belief. I would perhaps ascribe it to a metacontrarian cluster (perhaps the dominant metacontrarian cluster?) of beliefs professed in the SI-affiliated community.
Can you quantify that probability? Also, you might be surprised that the Less Wrong consensus (or maybe strong minority position?) is closer to pantheism than atheism.
Could you clarify what you mean by pantheism? I’m surprised by this claim.
That in a Big Universe, all possible gods exist.
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0905/0905.1283v1.pdf
“All possible gods” may be an empty set.
Even if the claim is technically defensible, I think it’s more than a little misleading to say that Less Wrong leans towards pantheism.
Judeo-Christian-style gods create the entire universe (as in everything that exists, not as in single components of a multiverse). A self-consistent god can be incompatible with the Tegmark multiverse.
Whoever downmodded me obviously hasn’t read Tegmark.
I didn’t downvote you, but your usage of the term “pantheism” seems to be inconsistent with its standard meaning.
Hmm, you’re right, I was thinking that the accepted definition of pantheism was “All Gods exist”.
That seems more like Gaiman’s Vertigo universe, where every god ever believed in has a physical reality fueled by that belief. It’s not a real-life belief, as far as I know, and it’s certainly not what is meant by “pantheism”.
Pantheism is the worship of the universe as a God. Most of us here in Less Wrong don’t worship the universe, we want to bind it to our service instead.
I downvoted you because I object to your implication that everyone here believes in Tegmark universes.
A lot of those that have thought carefully about it do. The Big Universe (Tegmark 1) is much easier to accept than level 4, as it is the current scientific consensus on cosmology. Most of the weird consequences of the bigger mathematical universe also happen in a simpler big universe, but scientists aren’t so good at taking the philosophical consequences of their ideas seriously.
BTW, I strongly believe (>90%) that the consensus on cosmology is will change in some way that doesn’t have strong implications for observations but does have strong implications for this kind of philosophy. E.g., the dark matter/energy problem getting resolved to some way that makes the universe finite.
As for level 4, we could have a long and pointless debate that would reduce to the subtleties of defining what it means for something to exist.
“A lot of those that have thought carefully about it do.”
Oh, you ran a poll on LW, and most folks responded to it, with the results confirming your anecdotal hunch about the consensus view? Cool.
For a second there I thought you were making strange unsupported claims about people most of whom you don’t know and with whom you haven’t discussed Tegmark universes.
Naw, if someone said they don’t believe in Tegmark universes, Kevin would just conclude that they haven’t thought about it carefully enough.
I’m vaguely aware that some Less Wrong people profess this belief, but as it’s not discussed on Less Wrong, I wouldn’t call it a Less Wrong belief. I would perhaps ascribe it to a metacontrarian cluster (perhaps the dominant metacontrarian cluster?) of beliefs professed in the SI-affiliated community.