we have an encryption that works, but we cannot even understand it
Huh? First, NNs are not opaque in the sense that you are talking about here. You can take a trained NN and express it as a a function, an algebraic statement. All the terms and the coefficients are out in the open. What you can’t do is ascribe meaning to individual terms or to (easily) evaluate how robust that function is, but that is not “we have no idea on how the encryption is done”.
Second, consider the work of a cryptanalyst. He has to break encryptions he doesn’t understand (yet) and often doesn’t know “how they are done”. I don’t think there were any claims that this encryption scheme is especially secure. Give it to competent cryptanalysts and they will break it.
What you can’t do is ascribe meaning to individual terms or to (easily) evaluate how robust that function is
Yeah, that’s normally what “understand” means.
Second, consider the work of a cryptanalyst. He has to break encryptions he doesn’t understand (yet) and often doesn’t know “how they are done”
Nah, that’s the old “security through obscurity” which is the first target of any cryptoanalyst and usually the least demanding part of the job (usually algorithms are provided by agents in the field). The “fun” part is breaking a known cypher. But here we have a cypher that we cannot make sense of:
We don’t know exactly how the encryption method works, as machine learning provides a solution but not an easy way to understand how it is reached.
I don’t think that in the context of this discussion we care about which part is fun and which is not. Cryptanalysts often assume the knowledge of the cypher because it’s a realistic assumption that the attacker will have it. However there is a variety of techniques which assume only the availability of cyphertext or of both cyphertext and plaintext without knowing what the algorithm is.
we have a cypher that we cannot make sense of
Um, evidence? Did any professional cryptographer say that? Was a new class of cyphers invented? Should we use this cypher for important communications?
Huh? First, NNs are not opaque in the sense that you are talking about here. You can take a trained NN and express it as a a function, an algebraic statement. All the terms and the coefficients are out in the open. What you can’t do is ascribe meaning to individual terms or to (easily) evaluate how robust that function is, but that is not “we have no idea on how the encryption is done”.
Second, consider the work of a cryptanalyst. He has to break encryptions he doesn’t understand (yet) and often doesn’t know “how they are done”. I don’t think there were any claims that this encryption scheme is especially secure. Give it to competent cryptanalysts and they will break it.
Yeah, that’s normally what “understand” means.
Nah, that’s the old “security through obscurity” which is the first target of any cryptoanalyst and usually the least demanding part of the job (usually algorithms are provided by agents in the field). The “fun” part is breaking a known cypher.
But here we have a cypher that we cannot make sense of:
I don’t think that in the context of this discussion we care about which part is fun and which is not. Cryptanalysts often assume the knowledge of the cypher because it’s a realistic assumption that the attacker will have it. However there is a variety of techniques which assume only the availability of cyphertext or of both cyphertext and plaintext without knowing what the algorithm is.
Um, evidence? Did any professional cryptographer say that? Was a new class of cyphers invented? Should we use this cypher for important communications?