I think you did a great job here, congratulations!
From my perspective, I only find one significant thing missing (not sure if Peterson actually made that point; I am not going to watch a 1-hour video now, I am just thinking about possible conservative arguments), which is going to sound weird considering the current culture wars, but it’s a kind of “check your privilege” argument:
Not only are social norms important for people in general, but especially for the poor/oppressed ones. To provide a current-year example, if you literally defund the police, people living in ghettoes will probably suffer more as a consequence, than people living in gated communities. More generally, rich/powerful people typically have other ways to protect themselves; the poor/oppressed ones rely more on the protection by social norms.
So, there is a chance that breaking a certain social norm might e.g. be a net benefit for the middle class, but a net harm for the working class. How would you know that, if all educated middle-class people around you say “it seems perfectly okay to me, only an idiot would disagree”, and all opponents just shake their heads but cannot provide the math to defend their arguments?
Thank you! It took me some courage to post here, but I’m glad I did.
I don’t remember Peterson mentioning that. The two quotes I posted are pretty much everything he explicitly stated on that topic. It’s in the spirit of the agreement extent game to generate your own pro-arguments for the opposition’s point, though.
I think you make an intriguing point with the “check your privilege” argument. Another example of social norms that protect poor/oppressed people is the idea that certain things that are off-limits to acquire/take – even if you have the recourses to pull it off. We would probably have many more Jeffrey Epsteins if not for that norm.
I think you did a great job here, congratulations!
From my perspective, I only find one significant thing missing (not sure if Peterson actually made that point; I am not going to watch a 1-hour video now, I am just thinking about possible conservative arguments), which is going to sound weird considering the current culture wars, but it’s a kind of “check your privilege” argument:
Not only are social norms important for people in general, but especially for the poor/oppressed ones. To provide a current-year example, if you literally defund the police, people living in ghettoes will probably suffer more as a consequence, than people living in gated communities. More generally, rich/powerful people typically have other ways to protect themselves; the poor/oppressed ones rely more on the protection by social norms.
So, there is a chance that breaking a certain social norm might e.g. be a net benefit for the middle class, but a net harm for the working class. How would you know that, if all educated middle-class people around you say “it seems perfectly okay to me, only an idiot would disagree”, and all opponents just shake their heads but cannot provide the math to defend their arguments?
Thank you! It took me some courage to post here, but I’m glad I did.
I don’t remember Peterson mentioning that. The two quotes I posted are pretty much everything he explicitly stated on that topic. It’s in the spirit of the agreement extent game to generate your own pro-arguments for the opposition’s point, though.
I think you make an intriguing point with the “check your privilege” argument. Another example of social norms that protect poor/oppressed people is the idea that certain things that are off-limits to acquire/take – even if you have the recourses to pull it off. We would probably have many more Jeffrey Epsteins if not for that norm.