Just being present and listening to someone without comment means I have lower status that person… what? If anything it is an honor to be able to help a person in that way, people in my world understand that.
I am extremely supportive of a move to more turn-taking and higher variance in contribution to a conversation, and allowing larger quantums of thought in general. However in a world where people already believe talking is higher status than listening (which is definitely true in most if not all cultures I’m familiar with, with exceptions that don’t apply here), saying it’s an honor to be the listener doesn’t counter the point, it reinforces it. The same way saying “It’s an honor to kiss the king’s feet” wouldn’t make you feel higher status relative to the king.
Sure. I’m trying demonstrate why it’s not considered low-status in my world, not claiming that anyone should feel this way in this world (though some people might already do?) The communication norms are the way they are for a reason, and I’m not arguing with that.
Also therapists aren’t considered low-status and listening is their job? Though I wish they were better at listening in this world.
I think the behaviors around speaking order, tone, dominance hierarchies, laughing, eye contact and that sort of thing are built into us by evolution at deep psychological levels, and any conversational norms for everyday speech that try to go against the grain of that programming will fail and bring misery to people.
But I’m on Lesswrong, so I obviously sympathize with the general goal here, and if a friend requested to speak with them in this way I’d try it out to see how it feels.
You’re right that naively or dismissively trying to go against the grain ain’t gonna work and that it’s an important thing to check, but it’s not actually necessary to go against the grain to adopt this conversational style.
Compare
“My brain is tuned for deeper cognitive processing than yours, so you, the listener are not allowed to express opinions or ask questions (without asking for consent for that first). Understand?”
with
“I have a hard time handling conflicting mental models, which is why I haven’t been able to keep up productively with these kinds of conversations. Would it be okay with you if we took bigger turns listening and put off objections and conflicting input until a bit later so that I can make space for them in my mind?”
The former no doubt gives you the kind of bristles you worry about, but I doubt the latter does. The proposal of “you listen to me” on its own is a status bid, but the symmetric proposal of “we listen to each other” isn’t, and justifying it as enabling your desire to process their input is actually a status boost for them.
I am extremely supportive of a move to more turn-taking and higher variance in contribution to a conversation, and allowing larger quantums of thought in general. However in a world where people already believe talking is higher status than listening (which is definitely true in most if not all cultures I’m familiar with, with exceptions that don’t apply here), saying it’s an honor to be the listener doesn’t counter the point, it reinforces it. The same way saying “It’s an honor to kiss the king’s feet” wouldn’t make you feel higher status relative to the king.
Sure. I’m trying demonstrate why it’s not considered low-status in my world, not claiming that anyone should feel this way in this world (though some people might already do?) The communication norms are the way they are for a reason, and I’m not arguing with that.
Also therapists aren’t considered low-status and listening is their job? Though I wish they were better at listening in this world.
Maybe a better way to phrase my point is this:
I think the behaviors around speaking order, tone, dominance hierarchies, laughing, eye contact and that sort of thing are built into us by evolution at deep psychological levels, and any conversational norms for everyday speech that try to go against the grain of that programming will fail and bring misery to people.
But I’m on Lesswrong, so I obviously sympathize with the general goal here, and if a friend requested to speak with them in this way I’d try it out to see how it feels.
You’re right that naively or dismissively trying to go against the grain ain’t gonna work and that it’s an important thing to check, but it’s not actually necessary to go against the grain to adopt this conversational style.
Compare
“My brain is tuned for deeper cognitive processing than yours, so you, the listener are not allowed to express opinions or ask questions (without asking for consent for that first). Understand?”
with
“I have a hard time handling conflicting mental models, which is why I haven’t been able to keep up productively with these kinds of conversations. Would it be okay with you if we took bigger turns listening and put off objections and conflicting input until a bit later so that I can make space for them in my mind?”
The former no doubt gives you the kind of bristles you worry about, but I doubt the latter does. The proposal of “you listen to me” on its own is a status bid, but the symmetric proposal of “we listen to each other” isn’t, and justifying it as enabling your desire to process their input is actually a status boost for them.