I object to describing recent community discussions as “drama”. Figuring out what happened within community organizations and holding them accountable is essential for us to have a functioning community. [I leave it unargued that we should have community.]
I agree that figuring out what happened and holding people/orgs accountable is important. That doesn’t make the process (at least the process as it worked this time) not drama. I certainly don’t think that the massive amount of attention the recent posts achieved can be attributed to thousands of people having a deeply-held passion for building effective organizations.
Not sure if this is what you’re getting at. My estimate is that only a few dozen people participated and that I would ascribe to most of them either a desire for good organizations, a desire to protect people or a desire for truth and good process to be followed. I’d put entertainment seeking as a non-trivial motivation for many, and to be responsible for certain parts of the conversation, but not the overall driver.
For me personally, they’re multiplied terms in the Fermi. Like, engagement = [desire for good]*[“entertainment”]*[several other things].
I wouldn’t have been there at all just for the drama. But also if there was zero something-like-pull, zero something-like-excitement, I probably wouldn’t have been there either.
To expand on this (though I only participated in the sense of reading the posts and a large portion of the comments), my reflective preference was to read through enough to have a satisfactorily-reliable view of the evidence presented and how it related to the reliability of data and analyses from the communities in question. And I succeeded in doing so (according to my model of my current self’s upper limitations regarding understanding of a complex sociological situation without any personally-observed data).
But I could feel that the above preference was being enforced by willpower which had to compete against a constantly (though slowly) growing/reinforced sense of boredom from the monotony of staying on the same topic(s) in the same community with the same broad strokes of argument far beyond what is required to understand simpler subjects. If there had been less drama, I would have read far less into the comments, and misses a few informative discussions regarding the two situations in question (CFAR/MIRI and Leverage 1.0).
So basically, the “misaligned subagent-like-mental-structures” manifestation of akrasia is messing things up again.
I object to describing recent community discussions as “drama”. Figuring out what happened within community organizations and holding them accountable is essential for us to have a functioning community. [I leave it unargued that we should have community.]
I agree that figuring out what happened and holding people/orgs accountable is important. That doesn’t make the process (at least the process as it worked this time) not drama. I certainly don’t think that the massive amount of attention the recent posts achieved can be attributed to thousands of people having a deeply-held passion for building effective organizations.
Not sure if this is what you’re getting at. My estimate is that only a few dozen people participated and that I would ascribe to most of them either a desire for good organizations, a desire to protect people or a desire for truth and good process to be followed. I’d put entertainment seeking as a non-trivial motivation for many, and to be responsible for certain parts of the conversation, but not the overall driver.
For me personally, they’re multiplied terms in the Fermi. Like, engagement = [desire for good]*[“entertainment”]*[several other things].
I wouldn’t have been there at all just for the drama. But also if there was zero something-like-pull, zero something-like-excitement, I probably wouldn’t have been there either.
I don’t feel great about this.
This sounds right, I think it generalizes to a lot of other people too.
To expand on this (though I only participated in the sense of reading the posts and a large portion of the comments), my reflective preference was to read through enough to have a satisfactorily-reliable view of the evidence presented and how it related to the reliability of data and analyses from the communities in question. And I succeeded in doing so (according to my model of my current self’s upper limitations regarding understanding of a complex sociological situation without any personally-observed data).
But I could feel that the above preference was being enforced by willpower which had to compete against a constantly (though slowly) growing/reinforced sense of boredom from the monotony of staying on the same topic(s) in the same community with the same broad strokes of argument far beyond what is required to understand simpler subjects. If there had been less drama, I would have read far less into the comments, and misses a few informative discussions regarding the two situations in question (CFAR/MIRI and Leverage 1.0).
So basically, the “misaligned subagent-like-mental-structures” manifestation of akrasia is messing things up again.