Nope. False, and furthermore Kafkaesque; there is no defensible reading of either the post or my subsequent commentary that justifies this line, and that alone being up-front and framing the rest of what you have to say is extremely bad, and a straightforward example of the problem.
It is a nuance-destroying move, a rounding-off move, a making-it-harder-for-people-to-see-and-think-clearly move, an implanting-falsehoods move. Strong downvote as I compose a response to the rest.
Given that there is lots of “let’s comment on what things about a comment are good and which things are bad” going on in this thread, I will make more explicit a thing that I would have usually left implicit:
My current sense is that this comment maybe was better to write than no comment, given the dynamics of the situation, but I think the outcome would have been better if you had waited to write your long comment. This comment felt like it kicked up the heat a bunch, and while I think that was better than just leaving things unresponded, my sense is the discussion overall would have gone better if you had just written your longer comment.
In response to this, I’ll bow out (from this subthread) for a minimum period of 3 days. (This is in accordance with a generally wise policy I’m trying to adopt.)
EDIT: I thought Oli was responding to a different thing (I replied to this from the sidebar). I was already planning not to add anything substantive here for a few days. I do note, though, that even if two people both unproductively turn up the heat, one after the other, in my culture it still makes a difference which one broke peace first.
The first 20 pages or so are almost a must-read in my opinion.
Highly recommended, for you in particular.
A Google search with filetype:pdf will find you a copy. You can skim it fast — not needed to close read it — and you’ll get the gems.
Edit for exhortation: I think you’ll get a whole lot out of it such that I’d stake some “Sebastian has good judgment” points on it that you can subtract from my good judgment rep if I’m wrong. Seriously please check it out. It’s fast and worth it.
This response I would characterize as steps (3) and (4) of the 5-step tactic I described. You are using more firey rhetoric (“Kafkaesque,” “extremely bad,” “implanting falsehoods,”), while denying that this is what you are doing.
I am not going to up-vote or down-vote you. I will read and consider your next response here, but only that response, and only once. I will read no other comments on this post, and will not re-read the post itself unless it becomes necessary.
I infer from your response that from your perspective, my comment here, and me by extension, are in the bin of content and participants you’d like to see less or none of on this website. I want to assure you that your response here in no way will affect my participation on the rest of this website.
Your strategy of concentration of force only works if other people are impacted by that force. As far as your critical comment here, as the Black Knight said, I’ve known worse.
If you should continue this project and attack me outside of this post, I am precommitting now to simply ignoring you, while also not engaging in any sort of comment or attack on your character to others. I will evaluate your non-activist posts the same way I evaluate anything else on this website. So just be aware that from now on, any comment of yours that strikes me as having a tone similar to this one of yours will meet with stony silence from me. I will take steps to mitigate any effect it might have on my participation via its emotional effect. Once I notice that it has a similar rhetorical character, I will stop reading it. I am specifically neutralizing the effect of this particular activist campaign of yours on my thoughts and behavior.
Jumping in here in what i hope is a prosocial way. I assert as hypothesis that the two of you currently disagree about what level of meta the conversation is/should-be at, and each feels that the other has an obligation to meet them at their level, and this has turned up the heat a lot.
maybe there is a more oblique angle then this currently heated one?
It’s prosocial. For starters, AllAmericanBreakfast’s “let’s not engage,” though itself stated in a kind of hot way, is good advice for me, too. I’m going to step aside from this thread for at least three days, and if there’s something good to come back to, I will try to do so.
Nope. False, and furthermore Kafkaesque; there is no defensible reading of either the post or my subsequent commentary that justifies this line, and that alone being up-front and framing the rest of what you have to say is extremely bad, and a straightforward example of the problem.
It is a nuance-destroying move, a rounding-off move, a making-it-harder-for-people-to-see-and-think-clearly move, an implanting-falsehoods move. Strong downvote as I compose a response to the rest.
Given that there is lots of “let’s comment on what things about a comment are good and which things are bad” going on in this thread, I will make more explicit a thing that I would have usually left implicit:
My current sense is that this comment maybe was better to write than no comment, given the dynamics of the situation, but I think the outcome would have been better if you had waited to write your long comment. This comment felt like it kicked up the heat a bunch, and while I think that was better than just leaving things unresponded, my sense is the discussion overall would have gone better if you had just written your longer comment.
In response to this, I’ll bow out (from this subthread) for a minimum period of 3 days. (This is in accordance with a generally wise policy I’m trying to adopt.)EDIT: I thought Oli was responding to a different thing (I replied to this from the sidebar). I was already planning not to add anything substantive here for a few days. I do note, though, that even if two people both unproductively turn up the heat, one after the other, in my culture it still makes a difference which one broke peace first.
Have you read “Metaphors We Live By” by Lakoff?
The first 20 pages or so are almost a must-read in my opinion.
Highly recommended, for you in particular.
A Google search with filetype:pdf will find you a copy. You can skim it fast — not needed to close read it — and you’ll get the gems.
Edit for exhortation: I think you’ll get a whole lot out of it such that I’d stake some “Sebastian has good judgment” points on it that you can subtract from my good judgment rep if I’m wrong. Seriously please check it out. It’s fast and worth it.
This response I would characterize as steps (3) and (4) of the 5-step tactic I described. You are using more firey rhetoric (“Kafkaesque,” “extremely bad,” “implanting falsehoods,”), while denying that this is what you are doing.
I am not going to up-vote or down-vote you. I will read and consider your next response here, but only that response, and only once. I will read no other comments on this post, and will not re-read the post itself unless it becomes necessary.
I infer from your response that from your perspective, my comment here, and me by extension, are in the bin of content and participants you’d like to see less or none of on this website. I want to assure you that your response here in no way will affect my participation on the rest of this website.
Your strategy of concentration of force only works if other people are impacted by that force. As far as your critical comment here, as the Black Knight said, I’ve known worse.
If you should continue this project and attack me outside of this post, I am precommitting now to simply ignoring you, while also not engaging in any sort of comment or attack on your character to others. I will evaluate your non-activist posts the same way I evaluate anything else on this website. So just be aware that from now on, any comment of yours that strikes me as having a tone similar to this one of yours will meet with stony silence from me. I will take steps to mitigate any effect it might have on my participation via its emotional effect. Once I notice that it has a similar rhetorical character, I will stop reading it. I am specifically neutralizing the effect of this particular activist campaign of yours on my thoughts and behavior.
Jumping in here in what i hope is a prosocial way. I assert as hypothesis that the two of you currently disagree about what level of meta the conversation is/should-be at, and each feels that the other has an obligation to meet them at their level, and this has turned up the heat a lot.
maybe there is a more oblique angle then this currently heated one?
It’s prosocial. For starters, AllAmericanBreakfast’s “let’s not engage,” though itself stated in a kind of hot way, is good advice for me, too. I’m going to step aside from this thread for at least three days, and if there’s something good to come back to, I will try to do so.