Let’s say I’m working with Bob. By exploiting his cognitive biases, I can convince him to do two things that I value. Without such exploitation, I can only convince him to do one. If I do exploit his biases, these bad things happen:
I have less confidence that either of the two things were actually worthwhile.
It is more likely that my enemy will be able to convince Bob to undo the valuable things he did.
I have less trust in Bob in the future, and his total value to me is reduced.
In some cases these effects might outweigh the value of getting two things done rather than one.
I don’t accept disagreement with Eugine_Nier as a ‘problem’.
you have too broad a notion of what constitutes “dark arts”.
There is a time and a place for each of the following:
“Grey” arts.
Dark arts as defined on the wiki.
The alternate version of ‘dark arts’ that nerzhin presented.
Further, there are instances in each category where the use of dark arts is pro-social. It seems that the term ‘dark arts’ has become a hindrance to understanding instead of a help. It does not mean evil!
I agree that manipulating Bob makes it hard to rely on Bob for “sanity checks” of my motives, and that that’s a significant loss if Bob would otherwise have been useful in that capacity.
And I can sorta see how it might be true in some cases that manipulating Bob might render him more manipulable by others, and therefore less valuable to me, than he would have been had I not manipulated him. (I have trouble coming up with a non-contrived example, though, so I’m not convinced.)
So, yes, agreed: in cases like those, it makes things worse.
Let’s say I’m working with Bob. By exploiting his cognitive biases, I can convince him to do two things that I value. Without such exploitation, I can only convince him to do one. If I do exploit his biases, these bad things happen:
I have less confidence that either of the two things were actually worthwhile.
It is more likely that my enemy will be able to convince Bob to undo the valuable things he did.
I have less trust in Bob in the future, and his total value to me is reduced.
In some cases these effects might outweigh the value of getting two things done rather than one.
Nobody doubts that doing stupid or ill-considered things with the dark arts could have undesirable consequences.
Note: the parent is another example of a dark arts persuasion technique.
I think your problem, is you have too broad a notion of what constitutes “dark arts”.
I don’t accept disagreement with Eugine_Nier as a ‘problem’.
There is a time and a place for each of the following:
“Grey” arts.
Dark arts as defined on the wiki.
The alternate version of ‘dark arts’ that nerzhin presented.
Further, there are instances in each category where the use of dark arts is pro-social. It seems that the term ‘dark arts’ has become a hindrance to understanding instead of a help. It does not mean evil!
I agree that manipulating Bob makes it hard to rely on Bob for “sanity checks” of my motives, and that that’s a significant loss if Bob would otherwise have been useful in that capacity.
And I can sorta see how it might be true in some cases that manipulating Bob might render him more manipulable by others, and therefore less valuable to me, than he would have been had I not manipulated him. (I have trouble coming up with a non-contrived example, though, so I’m not convinced.)
So, yes, agreed: in cases like those, it makes things worse.